GODDAMNITSOMUCH

[silentbob]

If a pedestrian gets hit by a car on a local street the driver is automatically at fault.

If a pedestrian gets hit on a freeway the pedestrian is automatically at fault.

Why, because you would not be able to have efficient flow of traffic at high speed if freeway drivers were on the lookout for pedestrians and traffic from side streets, driveways, etc.

We can ride at very high speeds on the track and we don't even have mirrors on the bikes.

Why, because to ride on the track riders have to follow strict rules about not stopping on the track, etc.

Does it always work?  No. 

Can you ride on the track or freeway at normal track/freeway speeds while being on the lookout for and able to avoid things you would need to be on the lookout for while doing 25mph in a school zone?  No.

[fastwin]

instructions from a country girl I once dated

you keep going...

brace and flinch for the thud and crunch

bless yourself and tell the good lord you're sending one home to him

do not look in rear-view

then she added it worked for animals as well as cheating boyfriends

Damn. Is that the technique she used to keep her pet Honey Badger fed?

[Raux]

we dont know if they ran into the back. they may have been riding just along and then the car full braked with the motorcycle no where in sight. the bike comes around a corner and bam. we don't know. the cops apparently know enough that they are looking at charging the driver and find no fault with the rider.

[Mhanis]

 Additionally we have all seen or been involved in a situation where the flow of traffic is moving along at a decent pace and for some reason there is a disabled car in the road (flat tire, accident, ducks crossing……whatever) and the car in FRONT of YOU doesn’t see anything until the last possible moment. When the car in front of you swerves to avoid the “whatever” now you are faced with doing 60 or whatever and you are RIGHT ON TOP of the problem, no warning.

We all rely on the other drivers/riders around us to give us feedback on what THEY see. If the car in front of you slows or brakes you adjust normally by slowing or braking yourself. If they continue at a normal pace, then you continue at a normal pace. But when someone in front of you bails at the last possible moment because they weren’t paying attention they can lead you (unknowingly) into a real OH-SHIT moment.

[Speedbag]

There is a very short stretch of road locally which has several ponds in close proximity. In the spring it is very common for several mature Canadian geese to leisurely cross the road with many young in tow. It's pretty much clockwork that they stop traffic until they get across.

It may be illegal to stop, but I have a hard time blazing through a line of full-grown geese on the ground and totaling whatever I'm driving or riding....

[Popeye the Sailor]

Look, one night while driving South in Massachusetts, on the highway in front of me, I saw headlights, and thought nothing of it, as the road did a little jog-I figured it was someone in the Northbound lane.


Nope-in MY lane coming right at me.


Was I expecting that? No.


Was I prepared? Yes-I don't let people hang out next to me-I knew the travel lane was open, and I swerved over and continued on my merry way.


Google Highway 30 where it took place-it's about as straight as can be. Clear visibility. Also, to quote the article, "The teenager's mother, riding on one motorcycle behind the car, and her husband and the couple's daughter on another motorcycle, "didn't have time to react" and veer away, he added."


Let me say it again-I don't care what the conditions were, what other people were doing. It's your job to keep you safe.


The real tragedy here is if no one learns anything from this poor family.

RIP.

[SacDuc]

^^^^
What the rocket surgeon said.

One night I came up on a car stalled out in the center lane of I-680. Light traffic so I had plenty of room to swerve but no other feed back from other drivers swerving and the darkness let me get much closer than I otherwise would have. The retard who was stalled out had no lights on and was just hanging out by his car. It scared the crap out of me, but luckily I was paying attention and swerved around the problem without incident.

It is the rider's responsibility to avoid this stuff. You can't feel smug about being right when you are dead.

The whole situation still sucks though. While it is the rider's responsibility to look out for him/herself the lady in the car is still largely at fault. Not that this will be any comfort to riders' families.

sac

[silentbob]

Look, one night while driving South in Massachusetts, on the highway in front of me, I saw headlights, and thought nothing of it, as the road did a little jog-I figured it was someone in the Northbound lane.


Nope-in MY lane coming right at me.


Was I expecting that? No.


Was I prepared? Yes-I don't let people hang out next to me-I knew the travel lane was open, and I swerved over and continued on my merry way.


Google Highway 30 where it took place-it's about as straight as can be. Clear visibility. Also, to quote the article, "The teenager's mother, riding on one motorcycle behind the car, and her husband and the couple's daughter on another motorcycle, "didn't have time to react" and veer away, he added."


Let me say it again-I don't care what the conditions were, what other people were doing. It's your job to keep you safe.


The real tragedy here is if no one learns anything from this poor family.

RIP.

I'm not saying that they couldn't have been more vigilant and possibly avoided it.  The fact that the second bike avoided it would seem to indicate that they could have too if they were more attentive.

I also agree that you can only count on yourself and even then not all the time.

However, just as Keith Code says in his books you only have so much mental capacity to spend at any one time.  He tries to get people to spend less of it on fear but the same principle applies here.  The faster you go, the harder you corner, etc, the less you have to spend on other things.  So, all of us have to sacrifice some attention in certain areas to concentrate on others.  This is why freeways have concrete dividers so you don't have to concentrate on every oncoming car coming into your lane and they don't have driveways dumping directly on to them so you don't have to worry about people backing into the right lane while you are traveling at 65+. 

Do you always have an open lane next to you?  Around me that would be nearly impossible during most times of the day. 

Should you let your guard down?  No.

Can you navigate the SoCal freeways like you would a mine field and maintain 80mph?  No.

I have had to dodge sofas and ladders many times on the freeway so I understand full well what you mean by being vigilant and responsible for my own safety.  But to say that we must drive in such a manner as to be prepared for everything, no matter how unexpected for the given terrain, is not reasonable.  I may get swept up in a tornado here in SoCal but the odds are pretty slim and me buying tornado insurance would be a waste even though it could happen.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Yeah but simply riding within your sight line is all I'm really pushing for here-following distance makes it so much easier to dodge ladders, truck caps, sofas, and sacduc's raccoon.

[NFG]

It seems to me that there's simply not enough information in the news article for us to make concrete judgments on either the rider or car driver in this case.  The police seem to have made their mind up in the rider's favour, hopefully they've had enough evidence to reach that conclusion accurately.

For the most part I side with MrIncredible on this: Ride with your own safety in mind.  Many of us like to push the limits, I know I do (In the car, more than on the bike on which I am still a newb) and I always have to strike a balance between assuming the road to be safe, and knowing it is.

On a blind corner I will not go full speed.  It's not a track, there's every chance someone or something is in the middle of the road trying to kill me.  I know this going in, and I adjust my speed accordingly: faster than I should if I planned on avoiding the hazard entirely, but slower than I would go if I knew for sure it was clear.  On a bike it's the same thing, isn't it?  You have to be aware that there may be hazards, and you either slow down to an absolutely safe speed for things you cannot predict, or you take the risk and hope for the best.

This rider lost out, the car driver was (apparently) at fault.  If the rider was riding for absolute safety he'd have been farther back, more attentive, slower.  He'd have also been in a car or home on the couch.  He took the risk to go riding, he took the risk to ride too fast into a blind corner or too close to the car in front 'cause he evaluated his options and thought he'd probably not see a stopped car or someone braking suddenly, whatever.

We all have this choice to make, and many of us chose to push the limit.  Most of the time it works and we're like tiny buzzing gods, flushed with success and deserving of a fizzy beverage and possibly some fattening food.  Sometimes, and this is the tragedy of our too-short lives, the limit pushes back and we pay the price.

Life is short, and we're all going to die sooner than we'd prefer.  My condolences to the surviving riders in this story, and to the driver of the car.  I don't know exactly how it happened, but there's every possibility I'd have stopped for some ducks too if I thought it was safe.

Ride safe, be aware.  We all live or die by our choices.

[fastwin]

Well said.

[silentbob]

On a blind corner I will not go full speed.  It's not a track, there's every chance someone or something is in the middle of the road trying to kill me.  I know this going in, and I adjust my speed accordingly: faster than I should if I planned on avoiding the hazard entirely, but slower than I would go if I knew for sure it was clear. 

See, this is my point.  Why can you go faster on the track?  Because the odds are less that you will encounter something in the middle of the road trying to kill you.  There is still a chance that a corner worker could run out in the middle of a blind corner or a bike in front of you could have just dumped it's oil or a dumb rider just stopped in the middle of the track.  But, if you rode with the expectation that these things might occur at every corner on the track you would be riding no faster than you would in a school zone.

[herm]

i ran over my first animal when i was a teen. it was a chipmunk. i tried to swerve, but of course it jumped under my tires. i felt bad.

my grandfather, who was riding shotgun, told me to never, ever, ever, swerve to avoid anything smaller than your tires. the chances of having a serious accident are just to great.

since then i have hit a LOT wildlife, and perhaps a stray cat or two...never swerved or stopped for one of them.

but i still feel bad when it happens.

[DucatiBastard]

one of my instructors in school said he will not swerve/stop for anything without antlers.

I asked him if the kids in his town knew to hold up Bull-winkle horns when crossing the street...




But yeah, i feel worst for the surviving mother and driver, thats some bad shit to live with.

[eesnas]

I was driving with a friend and a possum ran out and I tried to dodge him but actually smashed him on my bumper and he went rolling across the street, it was at night and I was going about 45mph... I was a young aggressive early 20's at the time and my friend was riding shotgun, my attempt to swerve actually made it look intentional so thinking quick on my feet at the moment I made impact with him I pumped my fist and exclaimed, "YEAH! GOT HIM!" My buddy looked at me in disbelief, he said "oh man, you are make the beast with two backsing crazy," he thought I intentionally hit it... it was great, that's all.