Help with sick S2R1K please...also posted on Tech in DMF main site

[GraGra]

I wonder if someone can help me with this problem – bit of a longish story, but I will try to get to the nub of it quickly (you need the background first):
 First of all, I should point out that I am in Thailand. There is only one dealer in Bangkok.

I alluded to a problem on the Reflashed ECU thread...now here's the update....

Bike not running smooth - and ALSO misfires badly after washing – or when it starts raining significantly – gets wet.

Background:

2006 S2R1K
35,000 km
Full Arrow, open box, O2 disconnected.
All service items, plugs included are OK. Leads – not sure – seem OK.

Had engine heads removed etc for cleaning at 20,000km – Ok after that – symptoms have developed since around 25,000km.

Had bike in around 25,000 km for check – clear fault on rear coil, reset TPS, check TB balance – seemed OK since then until 30,000 km ish.

Main symptom  - runs rough – low throttle percentage – surging. And misfires a lot when wet – clears when bike hot/water evaporates, but still runs rough.

Duc mech checks bike -

Shows faults on both coils – says fault to ground or faulty ECU.According to them, they checked the coils and they were OK.

Cannot get vacuum reading at idle with carbtune on front cylinder to balance TB. At mid RPM we get signal – but no way to balance with rear.

Rear seems ok. Gives reading at idle.

Mech says cannot be fault with both coils/wiring – likely faulty ECU – can’t check it.
Also tells me forward intake manifold has a crack/ leak in it.

I repair gasket seal and check forward manifold – no leak.

I also buy new DP ecu.

Install – bike feels better to me by seat of pants – but still rough at low throttle.

Check at Duc – still no vacuum except higher revs on forward manifold with carbtune. Rear still OK.

Check for faults with DDS shows STILL faults with both coils. So ECU not problem.

Mech tells me that it must be to do with the coils/wiring – and they will need to check it – why not do this in the first place?

Anyone got some thoughts on this.

I did also find some rat dung on the bike – have since dealt with the vermin – have looked for possible wiring issues due to this, can’t see any – where should I be looking for this if it is associated with both coils? The main harness where the coils enter into looks intact.

How do we check coils for spark/power?

I recently replaced battery (and plugs) too – at same time that I started to source the replacement parts  - ECU and manifold – 3 weeks ago.

Cheerand thanks in advance for any advice..

[ozducati]

The fact that it misfires and runs badly when it gets wet or a wash is a sign there's an issue somewhere with wiring or the coils.. i would say maybe there is a bare or badly earthed wire somewhere which may be arcing/shorting when wet?? you maybe need to strip the bike down a little and start having a good hard look at the wiring loom...

[GraGra]

Ok - yes, that is the step now proposed by the dealer - but would this also be contributing to the poor vacuum at the intake manifold - is that related possibly to poor spark/bad earth/short or whatever?

I'm guessjng that I should start with following the wire that leads from the coil/s back into the harness...?

Cheers,

[vossy]

Mmmmm smells like a short of some kind.

A multimeter could be useful with your search

The only advice I can give you with regards to finding it is check ALL wires/looms which run along / over each other and also wires that have contact with anything metallic.
Have any fuses blown during the course of your mishap?

good luck!

[GraGra]

No - no fuses blown.

Is there a way to get into the loom without destroying the outer housing/s? Any tips there?

With the multimeter, what do I do and what am I looking for?

I have the workshop manual - do I connect it to wires, with the ignition on (does bike need to be running?) and check the values according to a predefined table?

Cheers,

[ozducati]

who is the mechanic?? if you're in sydney, i would suggest maybe take it to D Moto and let George or Shaun check it out, doesn't sound like a simple issue...

[Jukie]

Hmmm ozducati he said he was in thailand

[ozducati]

sorry, missed that bit..... in that case, i think you need to get the dealer to test the coils i think..

[Mr.S2R]

hmm I think the problem lies with the open air box - and the fact that it runs rough when washed and/or wet raining.  Sounds to me like water is getting down in the air box and pooling there.  You may find that water is getting in to the top of the cylinders.  When the bike has been washed or wet I would lift the tank and see how much water is in the air box.  If it looks totally dry then move on to coils, or even faulty or dirty injectors.  Oh I am assuming fuel filter is clean/replaced recently and there is no water in the tank either....

Just my 2cents!  

[DUCMONROB]

Mmmmmm I'm tipping the cause is head related causing your grief. I come to this because you mention the vacume issue when balancing the throttle bodies. Same too for the water issue. See if your spark plugs look damp when the water issue comes about. Any steam comming from the exhaust when the mis fire water problem occurs?

One way to find the water issue is get the bike running where it is running hot and dry, get a spray bottle of water and start spraying areas of the engine and wiring.

Good luck!  

[888906]

I would do a compression test on both cyls as a quick check to see if there is a mechanical issue with the front cyl low vac.  Perhaps leak down test if comp down at all.  If this checks out you can be sure its electrical.  Check coils out by swapping front for rear to see if symptoms transfer to the other cylinder.  Its unlikely that its coils as they tend to break down under load as opposed to idle (but still not impossible) Water in the fuel is a distinct possibility

A check with the gas analyser of both cylinders CO will indicate if the front cyl is too lean and could be the result of an air leak.

These simple tests should narrow things down a bit...

[GraGra]

Thanks guys - this kinda confirms my thinking - that is is somehow either related to the compression/engine seal or wiring/electricals - or both.

About the fuel and air - I'm always very careful about getting water in the airbox when washing - I cover the box with a shower/hair cap thing, and always check and dry it after washing and before drying ride. Prob still occurs.

About fuel - filter was replaced recently - and because it clears when the bike gets hot (even though it still runs rounghish - the misfire goes away) - I don't think it is that.

I hope i can get this in to the dealer tomorrow so they can go over it - i will ask them first to do a simplp compression test to rule the mechanical out, then let them go after the wiring.

Will post back when and if I get a fix.

Cheers,

[ozs4]

+1 on the front head mechanical issue.  had very similar problems related to a bent valve and lack of vacuum.

[GraGra]

wow. But any issues related to the wet?
You know, i've read about the valve guide issues on early 2 spark engines.
I raised this with the dealer who said that they were aware of viat but my bike being a later model- it's actually around last quarter 2006 production, had viat issue addressed already. Not sure if this is true or not.
These guys seem to make their own hypotheses and believe them without testing them first. They rarely test ride a bike after 'fixing' it....ho-hum.
Bike is booked in for fri. So i guess i have tomorrow to look at wiring myself...
I won't charge them for that...

[auntymal]

..ok..spoke to the Jedi Masters (Shaun and George at Dmoto), here is their feedback; " 1) re-connect the oxy sensors. 2) Check the coils earths, if possible, run them down to the starter motor bolt. 3) re-check the valve clearances. 4) properly balance the co and TPS items. 4) disconnect and re-connect all main plugs especially the TPS plug, treat with WD 40." good luck. aunty mal. p.s. contact the Ducati Jedi at dmoto@optusnet.com.au