WSBK Rd 11 -- Silverstone (Spoilers)

[tufty]

Either way Aprilia is at worst cheating or at best being very unsportsmanlike.
Jes sayin'.

[fastwin]

Cheating is neither sportsmanlike or something to take pride in unless it involves death.

[zooom]

if they don't meet the homologation #'s or requirements(which could be argued I am sure)...could they then take a title away from the rider or just the constructors title?

[Triple J]

Either way Aprilia is at worst cheating or at best being very unsportsmanlike.
Jes sayin'.

Explain how. The current rule states:

"The method of cam drive (chain, belt or gears) must remain as on the homologated motorcycle unless a complete kit is available through normal commercial channels"

This is exactly what they did...make a kit available. Just like any other manufacturer could have done. Unless the kit costs >$20K, then getting an RSV4 Factory + the kit is still cheaper than an 1198R.

Sounds to me like the other manufacturers are just whining because they're getting beat. Same as Rea whining in this month's Cycle World about the Ducatis "sandbagging" to get a 3 kg weight reduction.  

Next year is a different story, as the kit language has been removed...but it seems very legal for 2010. I fail to see how its unsportsmanlike either. They're within the rules, and racing is all about having the advantage.

[Spidey]

There was a legitimate question whether they were breaking the rules earlier in the season.  But once that language was inserted re the "commercial kit", they were golden.  I'll still keep refering to it as a cheater bike, but it legal.  I can't see how following the rules to build the most competitive bike possible is unsportsmanlike.  If the gripe is with the rulemaking, blame the rulemakers, not Aprilia.

Again, the 1198R cannot be raced in WSBK.  So saying that a RSV4 with a cam kit is the same cost as an 1198R isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.  Cuz an gear cammed RSV4 is also less than a Desmosedici, which they could not run in a WSBK.  And it's more than a Hayabusa, which they also cannot run in WSBK. 

[Triple J]

If the gripe is with the rulemaking, blame the rulemakers, not Aprilia.
 

+1

Again, the 1198R cannot be raced in WSBK.   

I must have missed that. When did that happen, and what's the point of offering one then?

[Spidey]

I must have missed that. When did that happen, and what's the point of offering one then?

I'm not sure what the point of offering it is, but it'll will sell.  The new homologation rules require sales of 3000 units.  I don't think Ducati got a break from that requirement and there's no way they'll sell 3k 1198Rs.  That's why the 1198S has a lot of the stuff from the 1098R , so that Ducati can use that as a base for a WSBK bike.  Otherwise, the 1198S would be a lower-spec bike and they'd just toss all the good stuff on the 1198R.

[Jester]

I'm not sure what the point of offering it is, but it'll will sell.  The new homologation rules require sales of 3000 units.  I don't think Ducati got a break from that requirement and there's no way they'll sell 3k 1198Rs.  That's why the 1198S has a lot of the stuff from the 1098R , so that Ducati can use that as a base for a WSBK bike.  Otherwise, the 1198S would be a lower-spec bike and they'd just toss all the good stuff on the 1198R.

You don't have to hit the sales number every year.  I believe once a bike has been homologated, it has something like an 8 year window to be raced. 

[Spidey]

Where are you getting that from?

Edit:  I didn't find that bit about the sales number.  But I found the rule that says that homologation is good for 5 years and you can ask for a 2 year extension after that. 

[Jester]

Where are you getting that from?

Edit:  I didn't find that bit about the sales number.  But I found the rule that says that homologation is good for 5 years and you can ask for a 2 year extension after that. 

I don't have an exact source, I was just going off memory as I believed you only have to hit homologation requirements once for a certain bike.  Your window of 5+2 is probably what I'm thinking of.  Anyway, I swear its not a yearly number for a model.  I think its just a one time threshhold.

[zooom]

I wish the 1198R had gear drive

That's the rumor for the 2011 version.  

I I think that is the "SuperQuadrata" motor that is being developed and this is what I could find about it...

... The Superquadrata (over square) motor will be a radical over square twin with the cylinders canted rearwards. Rotating the cylinders thus would make the mass of the bike more compact with the benefits associated with this such as mass centralisation. It will also allow the motor to be moved forward to put more weight over the front wheel and allow a longer swing arm for increased stability. It should also allow for a cassette type gearbox, something the older engines have lacked and will allow for easier and quicker gear ratio changes.

It is understood that the new motor will have a stroke of just 60.6mm and a soup plate piston size of 112mm giving a capacity of 1194cc. The current bike is 67.9 x 106mm. The engine is highly likely to feature gear driven cams, a move away from belts which require changing before every race/practice.

It is also speculated that this new engine may be mated to Ducati's carbon fibre frame with the engine providing the only connection between front and rear wheels....

and given what Del Torchio said here -> http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_looks_articles/10q3/rossi_to_ducati_in_2011_confirmed!_plus_inside_the_new_mega-monster_-_first_look/ducati_project_0803-_new_ducati_project_motorcycle_page_2

...We knew that we were going to face a tough year in World Superbike. The new rules don't help; someone was allowed to bend them, and our 1198 has reached its ultimate potential. In two years, we shall be ready with our new 1200cc Twin....

I think it lends some weight to that thought as a little more than just idle banter when you add everything together...but not for 2011, but for 2012.

[desmoquattro]

and given what Del Torchio said here -> http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_looks_articles/10q3/rossi_to_ducati_in_2011_confirmed!_plus_inside_the_new_mega-monster_-_first_look/ducati_project_0803-_new_ducati_project_motorcycle_page_2

...We knew that we were going to face a tough year in World Superbike. The new rules don't help; someone was allowed to bend them, and our 1198 has reached its ultimate potential. In two years, we shall be ready with our new 1200cc Twin....

I think it lends some weight to that thought as a little more than just idle banter when you add everything together...but not for 2011, but for 2012.

Saw that too...and immediately regretted buying a 2009

[Spidey]

I finally watched the SS race last night. Three comments:

1)  Lascorz is soooo lucky he didn't get more f'd up.  That looked awful.
2)  Sofogolu--as usual--seems to be able to drop lap record laps any time he pleases.  WTF?  He ate up that gap like it was nothing.
3)  Laverty has some serious balls, waving Keenan into the lead.  Between the SS race and Cal's races in WSBK, we saw some seriously smart racing.  It's different than when they're banging fairings and passing each other every turn.  But it's a a pleasure to watch.  I feel like we don't see enough of it.   

[fastwin]

I watched the SS race last night also! It was GREAT! I also loved it when Laverty backed off to let Kenan go through. Awesome shit for sure. Yeah, what a ballsy move and he made it work... all the more ballsy and awesome!

God awful wreck on the first lap. I can't believe both Lascorz and Tamburini even survived that. Holy shit! When Tamburini bounced off that wall I just thought "shit, he's dead!" I know they mentioned what the injuries might have been but does anyone on here know for a fact what they were and how long they will be out?

Besides that incident it was a great race weekend in Silverstone! Loved the Crutchlow Show in WSBK. Great race smarts! Beautifully done by both Cal and Eugene!

Speaking of World Supersport, anyone know why there are so few (maybe 2) Yamahas on the grid and zero Suzukis? Half or more of the field is always CBR600s with the rest being Triumph Daytonas and Kawi ZX6s. Do the rules favor the CBRs that much? Or does Honda funnel that much support to all the teams? Just curious...

[zooom]

Speaking of World Supersport, anyone know why there are so few (maybe 2) Yamahas on the grid and zero Suzukis? Half or more of the field is always CBR600s with the rest being Triumph Daytonas and Kawi ZX6s. Do the rules favor the CBRs that much? Or does Honda funnel that much support to all the teams? Just curious...

I am betting it has somewhat to do with the support/development from the factories, but it also has to do with the the money those manufacturers are putting into those machines in general...Honda is probably muling some development through Moto2 and well Suzuki...well..when was the last time the GXSR's got any kind of upgrade/update?...Kawasaki has done better with the SS bikes than their SBK's for the last few years for some unforseen reason...maybe i is a matter of priority or what...I have no clue...