Outerwears water repellent "Pre-Filters"

[ducpainter]

I see.....      Although I dont understand....   I dont understand how the ability to inhale more air - and if balanced with accompaningly more fuel - how that can decrease power output?  I'm not doubting what you say in any way - never hurts to suck up to the mods  - I just dont understand  ....

WASP are putting out Dyno charts showing +4hp for their M1100 kit (which I suppose consists of more than just pod filters.....). 

Educate me.

And sorry for the minor thread-jack.... 

M1100 is not a 4V...but I'm skeptical of most hp claims regardless.

On a 4V the airbox tricks the engine into believing the crankcase is larger than it is, because it's connected via the breather...and that has a relationship to hp.

I don't totally understand it either, but the source is irrefutable IMO.

I also don't think pods are very beneficial to 2V monsters...but you know about opinions.

[ungeheuer]

M1100 is not 4v, true enough. But still.... my bubble has been pricked... the seed-pod of doubt sown...   

To avoid further thread-jacking here I'll continue the pod-filter debate over here >>  http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39529.msg772336#msg772336 <<  and return to topic with this M1100 wearing matching RED outerwear socks...

[mattc7]

There are theoretical plusses and minuses for both.

Theoretically an airbox allows for a more constant volume of calm, stable denser air, that in turn should provide for more power in the engine.

HOWEVER, the 2V bikes, more than the 4V bikes, have very tiny airboxes, so the volume is less than the air that can enter from the pods.

ALSO. If you run pd filters without a proper velocity stack, the speed of the air entering is actually slowed, the volume is lower, and the turbulence is higher.

With proper velocity stack (bell-mouth), you get a smoothing effect on the airflow, the air speeding up (kind of like the curvature on an airplane's wing speeds up the air), and a theoretical increase in power.

On 2V from what I've seen (dyno) and experienced (real world), if you go POD filters only, and no stacks/beast kit, you lose power.  We're talking 2-4 hp max.  These is true on the sports, supersports, and monsters (s2r) ---- i haven't had the experience of no airbox on the 1100 yet.  The beast kit, ducshop kit, and from what i hear of the wasp kit, each offer a bellmouth styled stack, which gives them more power. This is much more apparent on bikes such as the hyper, and the s2r, where the airboxes are severely undersized.  On the 1100, it looks like by Wasp's numbers, the effect is alittle smaller, but still should have net gains.

The big thing with the airbox is that it affords the same stable, smooth air at all speeds, where as pods lose that stable air, but given so much more surface area to choose from, air tends to go the way we want it to.

I would suggest that you'ld probably have even better power, with a set of stacks inside the stock airbox, and running tubes or (air runners) from the intakes in the stock airbox, to the front of the bike.  This, if done properly, would probably be the most effective method of increasing velocity, volume and density of the air being taken in, but would probably be alot of work, and look silly.

Go too big with an airbox, or too small, and you lose power. There's so many factors at play, that the physics gets abit overwhelming without being to test every variable.

The pod filters look dope, much cooler than the airbox. Your impression of them, is that they make the bike run better.  It's all likely that it does. 

[mattc7]

There are theoretical plusses and minuses for both.

Theoretically an airbox allows for a more constant volume of calm, stable denser air, that in turn should provide for more power in the engine.

HOWEVER, the 2V bikes, more than the 4V bikes, have very tiny airboxes, so the volume is less than the air that can enter from the pods.

ALSO. If you run pd filters without a proper velocity stack, the speed of the air entering is actually slowed, the volume is lower, and the turbulence is higher.

With proper velocity stack (bell-mouth), you get a smoothing effect on the airflow, the air speeding up (kind of like the curvature on an airplane's wing speeds up the air), and a theoretical increase in power.

On 2V from what I've seen (dyno) and experienced (real world), if you go POD filters only, and no stacks/beast kit, you lose power.  We're talking 2-4 hp max.  These is true on the sports, supersports, and monsters (s2r) ---- i haven't had the experience of no airbox on the 1100 yet.  The beast kit, ducshop kit, and from what i hear of the wasp kit, each offer a bellmouth styled stack, which gives them more power. This is much more apparent on bikes such as the hyper, and the s2r, where the airboxes are severely undersized.  On the 1100, it looks like by Wasp's numbers, the effect is alittle smaller, but still should have net gains.

The big thing with the airbox is that it affords the same stable, smooth air at all speeds, where as pods lose that stable air, but given so much more surface area to choose from, air tends to go the way we want it to.

I would suggest that you'ld probably have even better power, with a set of stacks inside the stock airbox, and running tubes or (air runners) from the intakes in the stock airbox, to the front of the bike.  This, if done properly, would probably be the most effective method of increasing velocity, volume and density of the air being taken in, but would probably be alot of work, and look silly.

Go too big with an airbox, or too small, and you lose power. There's so many factors at play, that the physics gets abit overwhelming without being to test every variable.

The pod filters look dope, much cooler than the airbox. Your impression of them, is that they make the bike run better.  It's all likely that it does. 

Wait, scratch this....Ung, it's sapping 85 hp away, you're down to about 10-15. You should just send them to me, to get them as far from you as possible.

 

[ungeheuer]

Ok so the thread-jack continues.  Dont blame me.  I tried  .

With proper velocity stack (bell-mouth), you get a smoothing effect on the airflow, the air speeding up (kind of like the curvature on an airplane's wing speeds up the air), and a theoretical increase in power.

The beast kit, ducshop kit, and from what i hear of the wasp kit, each offer a bellmouth styled stack, which gives them more power. This is much more apparent on bikes such as the hyper, and the s2r, where the airboxes are severely undersized.  On the 1100, it looks like by Wasp's numbers, the effect is alittle smaller, but still should have net gains.

The pod filters look dope, much cooler than the airbox. Your impression of them, is that they make the bike run better.  It's all likely that it does. 

I hear only what I want to hear... and in that context your answer was much more sensible than DP's    ...

The big thing with the airbox is that it affords the same stable, smooth air at all speeds, where as pods lose that stable air, but given so much more surface area to choose from, air tends to go the way we want it to.

So as the air flow becomes more turbulent and less stable at higher speed..... its a good thing that I've got Autotune adjusting my PC5 on the fly then eh  .

[Fergus]

Does anyone just sell velocity stacks? I've already go pods and fuelling mods...

[mattc7]

Does anyone just sell velocity stacks? I've already go pods and fuelling mods...

tpo sells two sets of stacks only.

1 for midrange power, 1 for high end

[Artful]

Tell me again what the benefit of a water repellent sock is over your filter? Water vapor doesn't have a dramatic impact on power unless you're riding in a monsoon and pour your drink in the airbox at the same time...

[DucHead]

Tell me again what the benefit of a water repellent sock is over your filter? Water vapor doesn't have a dramatic impact on power unless you're riding in a monsoon and pour your drink in the airbox at the same time...

I don't think I ever told you previously, but they are to protect your engine whilst riding in a hard rain.  No more, no less.

Oh, and pods replace an airbox.

[Artful]

I didn't mean you personally, just in general. That's what I'm asking though, is what are you protecting your engine from? Rain drops won't damage a motor, even if you're in a torrential downpour. Hydrolocking a motor requires a substantial amount of water entering the cylinder, which on a bike is damn near impossible. In fact the only way I know to hydrolock a motorcycle without fording a river is to have a leaking fuel system. Rain drops that even get into a cylinder will be vaporized instantly during combustion. Hell, I used to have a turbo GTI that had water injection to cool the intake air to run more boost and make more power (yes, obviously FI is far different than NA in that regard).

On a dirt bike where you're seeing heavy particulates I can see a pre-filter making sense, but on a street bike I don't "get it" other than they're pretty (and hey, that's totally an arguable reason).

[mattc7]

How much rain.

Soaking wet filters don't do their job well.  Moisture dripping into the filter, and into the cylinders when the bike is sitting, also is not good.

They're water repellant, and don't inhibit airflow, seems like a good idea nomatter how you look at it.

It's mostly just another layer of protection...you may not need them, but if t is sensible to have.

[Artful]

How much rain.

About enough to flood the area up to the airbox. As in about three feet + of standing water. To damage a motor from hydrolocking it (the only way water damages a cylinder - vapor actually steam cleans it) you have to take in a pretty substantial amount of water, all at once. Pouring water into an open airbox as long as you don't dump a bucket in, will not actually damage the motor.

Soaking wet filters don't do their job well.  Moisture dripping into the filter, and into the cylinders when the bike is sitting, also is not good.

A wet filter on a running bike still filters remarkably well, the moisture doesn't alter the size of the filter mesh. The vacuum created by the running motor and the heat of combustion will wick and then evaporate any vapor present very quickly. A wet filter on a sitting bike won't cause much damage either, as the heat of a recently run motor will quickly evaporate almost all the water out of the filter.

They're water repellant, and don't inhibit airflow, seems like a good idea nomatter how you look at it.

It's mostly just another layer of protection...you may not need them, but if t is sensible to have.

I'm not saying it is a bad idea to have extra protection, but my issue lies with whether or not they really offer any more protection other than a slight bit of misplaced peace of mind. It's like avalanche insurance in San Diego. It doesn't really do anything and it costs you money, but gosh darn it... it provides an extra layer of protection "just in case" the laws of physics and thermal dynamics are temporarily suspended.

Prefilters make sense on dirt vehicles, they prevent particulates from caking up the air filter. On a road going bike though I'm just not sold. They look neat though, and if that makes you want to buy them, don't let me hold you back.

[ungeheuer]

Pouring water into an open airbox as long as you don't dump a bucket in, will not actually damage the motor.

Show me  .

They look neat though, and if that makes you want to buy them, don't let me hold you back.

Thanks.  We didnt  .

[Artful]

Show me  .

Can do.

Civic Water Steam Cleaning Engine Part 1

Thanks.  We didnt  .

Glad to hear it. Everyone's bike is their bike and can do whatever they want to it. Just offering an opposing viewpoint backed up with experience and evidence for those considering the purchase.

[DucHead]

Glad to hear it. Everyone's bike is their bike and can do whatever they want to it. Just offering an opposing viewpoint backed up with experience and evidence for those considering the purchase.

Unless you (1) have pod filters on your bike and (2) you ride in the rain a lot, I'm not sure your arguments are convincing.  I for one would like to see you dump a cup of water in your airbox whilst the bike is running.   

I've talked to quite a few folks who run pod filters and the unanimous response is that their bikes run poorly in a hard rain.  Since I ride year-round in all sorts of weather, their experiences were enough for me to drop the sum of $30 on the pod filter covers.