Choice of tapered head bearings?

[Duck-Stew]

Couple of points:

1:  the seal is meant to seal the grease into the steering stem of the frame and NOT against the outer race.  Because the seal contacted the outer race, I got the shims to allow the seal to keep dust/dirt out and grease in without dragging against the bearing race.  I felt that the seal would have caused undue drag against the outer race as it doesn't contact the outer race when used on a factory Ducati ball-bearing.

2:  Speedymoto's grease seal ID is larger than the steering stem ID which isnt an issue on the upper bearing, but on the lower with the pressed fit, could be an issue if the seal isn't centered before the bearing snugs down against the lower triple.

3:  price drop!!  I can provide these now for $100 including the OEM seals & spacers with the same high quality Koyo bearings...  

[brad black]

most of the ST and M frames with the ball steering head bearings have a washer under the seal at the bottom (between seal and triple clamp).  if you fit that washer between the seal and bearing and use another at the top this solves the seal drag issue when using the taper rollers.

i just order the ducati ones as they're easy to get that way.  i also use ducati seals for the same reason - 93010041A i think.

[junior varsity]

its funny how some part numbers stick in your head like glue
44440034a/44440035a
22032083a/85250421a/85250241a, etc etc

[stopintime]

This is the All Balls 22-1039 bearing kit for a Ducati Monster S2R800 (a.s.o.)

Is this right side up and the seal in the correct position? (lower bearing)
I tried the other way and the seal snaps in place, but then there is contact - slowing rotation a little bit.

[booger]

Looks like the KML 32907, exactly the same as what Speedymoto sells. I have noticed the same rubbing when the seal is fitted in the proper orientation. I got an email response from Speedymoto when I enquired about the issue:

'The replacement Bearing for the newer Ducati's has always been a bit
weird so here's my take.

The original ball bearing races wear out quickly leaving your steering
feeling sticky and lumpy. Tapered bearing provide a greater amount of
surface area so they tend to last longer and offer a smoother steering
transition left to right.

The problem is the seal, these bikes are not really set up to run
tapered bearings and nobody offers a perfect bearing solution without a
little bit of compromise. The Seal in our kit rubs inner diameter of
steering head but it does break in.  Tapered bearings require a little
more adjustment to setup right you can't just torque them down to a
factory spec or they will feel very tight. Stews solution is to use a
ball bearing seal with a spacer which will keep the seal from rubbing
another viable solution is to just flip the seal upside down.

As far as quality goes our supplier is selling us KLM bearings which is
a Chinese company but these upper mid quality bearings from KLM are
reputable and we have had no issues at all with their quality or we
would not sell them. I understand the knee jerk reaction to Chinese
products but you will be hard pressed to find a bearing manufacture who
doesn't source from China (whether or not they claim it). There are more
expensive higher quality bearings but I don't think they offer much
advantage in this low friction low heat application.'

[booger]

So what I take from all of this, is that I should stick with the factory ball bearings, since a tapered solution will involve 'compromise'. I bought these bearings initially because I thought they were an upgrade from the stock bearings, but I was mistaken apparently. My experience with standard bearings is yes, the outer races do get damaged but only if water somehow gets into them, and they are not kept greased and properly torqued(at least in the case of mountain bikes). So the best solution to me is to just maintain the original bearings. It's disappointing when you come to the conclusion that the stock item is actually the best item, especially when you already bought the aftermarket item that was supposed to be better. C'est la vie.

  

[Raux]

I had the same issue on the torque.
way to tight with stock torque. so we backed it off. it's super smooth, but i would have to tear it apart to see if there's any seal issue.

[stopintime]

Most likely, I need to flip the bearing around. The picture shows it upside down (I assume).
When I do that, as mentioned, there is contact. There will also be contact against the steering head.

Maybe I'm way off, but I can't understand how a seal will seal if there is no contact.
My KML/All Balls kit seems to have intended contact between all three parts of the bearing, plus steering head.

If the seal is working well, there might not be a need for any other seal except against the steering head inner diameter.
I'm assuming that's what Stu is aiming at.

[Duck-Stew]

My kit is a pair of Koyo tapered roller bearings, spacers to keep the OEM seals off of the bearing race & the OEM seals.

My kit was designed as an alternative to te OE ball bearing that was 2nd to none.

'stopintime': Does the 'All Balls' kit have the correct seal ID, or is it loose like the SpeedyMoto kit?

[stopintime]

My kit is a pair of Koyo tapered roller bearings, spacers to keep the OEM seals off of the bearing race & the OEM seals.

My kit was designed as an alternative to te OE ball bearing that was 2nd to none.

'stopintime': Does the 'All Balls' kit have the correct seal ID, or is it loose like the SpeedyMoto kit?

The 33-1008 seal ID is 1 - 1.5 mm wider than the inner race, but is (hopefully) kept in place by the snap-in-place feature provided by the complex profile of the rubber.

Stu, what are the contact issues - properly greased, will the seal fail? It seems to me they are designed to contact to seal.

[Duck-Stew]

I don't know if th contact would cause a premature failure of the seal, but the OEM ball bearing races do not contact the OE seals, so I found a suitable spacer to correct that condition....

[BK_856er]

I spent the last 30min examining my KLM speedymoto bearings/seals and comparing them against the pics here.  Physically my parts look just like stopintimes.  The seal hole to accomodate the steering stem is 1.2mm larger diameter than the bearing ID, but the seal is "captive" on the tapered bearing for self-centering during installation.  When assembled and pressed together firmly with fingers, the seal is 0.45mm off the outer race along its entire circumference, as measured with a feeler gauge (no contact or drag on the race).  The seal has a double-lip that presumably contacts the steering head ID when installed.  Would this seal also work with the Koyo bearings?

BK

[Duck-Stew]

It should work as the bearing part #'s are the same: 32907.  That part number indicates the dimensions of the bearing so they would be interchangeable in fitment.

[brad black]

i thought the seal sealed against the inside of the frame tube.  the seal sits on top of the inner cone, so it's the first part fitted to the lower triple and the last part fitted under the adjusting nut at the top.

just fit a spacer between seal and bearing.  genuine part i use is 85211311A i think, i'll check later.

[BK_856er]

Yes, tube frame = steering head, at least by my loose terminology.  I like your first/last parts fitted description.  This S2R800 pic is not the greatest - seal is #5 on both ends.  You pros know the specifics, but I thought I would put the pic here for the benefit of others.

BK