Ever worked construction?

[ducpainter]

I dunno what unions you guys worked for

<snip>

no foot up my ass.

[Vindingo]

so here's a question

you are a seasoned construction guy

you acknowledge that its a PITA to get in the buisness without experience

and yet you vote no on the union idea

even though it is a sure fire way to get your foot in the door?


that doesn't make any sense

joining a union will not necessarily get you work, but it will cost you time and money.  Pay to take classes, joining fees, and that still doesn't guarantee you work.  Paying to get your foot in the door to an empty room...

I think it is a waste of time.  4 years working for an independent contractor will give you 10x more expedience than apprenticing 4 years as a union carpenter.  

It also wouldn't hurt to work on your house, your parent's house, friends houses... get some basic tools and practice on forgiving clients.  

[rgramjet]

I was born into it.  

Fortunatly I was smart enough to work my way out of it.

I wasnt.

I'd rather have my foot shoved up my own ass than be a union member.

just sayin'

+1
I have a cousin thats a union carpenter in New Jersey.  He builds concrete forms all day every day.....Id rather work retail.  

Unions  

If I was to do it all over, I would have gone to HVAC or Plumbing school and started my own gig.  I have two friends, both in HVAC that pull down $300+ per year.  They bust their asses and the busy seasons suck because you are always on call with a small company.  There is a happy medium.

If you want to try something different, that doesnt require years of technical education or shoveling shit as an apprentice, ride the Green Wave.  Learn how to do home energy audits, sell solar thermal hot water systems or get trained on spray foam insulation.  

Use your engineering credentials to your advantage.  For example, if you are an electrical engineer, sell PV systems.

The framers that I use, work 6-7 days a week, 8 plus hours a day in 100 degree heat and 20 degree cold and they all speak Spanish.  They are happy to have the work.  They are some precise and fast mofo's.  Unless you are superman, you can't keep up with them.

[Vindingo]

^^^

what he said!  Pimp the degree and get creative!

No working involved.

Thats SOO not true!  Holding a stop sign with a sour look on your face is hard work ( unless there is a traffic cone you can stick it in.  then all you have to do is spin the sign around once in a while )

[GAAN]

joining a union will not necessarily get you work, but it will cost you time and money.  Pay to take classes, joining fees, and that still doesn't guarantee you work.  Paying to get your foot in the door to an empty room...

I think it is a waste of time.  4 years working for an independent contractor will give you 10x more expedience than apprenticing 4 years as a union carpenter. 

It also wouldn't hurt to work on your house, your parent's house, friends houses... get some basic tools and practice on forgiving clients. 

Things must be way different in california

I was a Millwright, we were part of the UBC

I took a test to get placed in the apprenticeship (no cost, no dues)

waited until my number came up (no cost, no dues) wait time was 3 months

and

my first duty as an apprentice was to report to a job site with my tools and start working (dues came out of my check as I was paid)

Then I was scheduled for classes while I worked with the option of working Mon-Thur with class Friday

or

go for a week at a time every 2 months and I got paid to be in class

when the job finished you were put on the books and automatically enrolled by the union for unemployment and all dealings with unemployment was taken care of by the hall so no weekly job searching

during the apprenticeship you were trained in every aspect of Millwrighting and were actively discouraged from focusing on a single set of skills

the longest amount of time I was on unemployment between jobs was 2 weeks

[rgramjet]

So what happened to the Millwright gig?

[GAAN]

So what happened to the Millwright gig?

I wanted to be a fireman and have some "meaning" to my life instead of a nice paycheck

[SacDuc]

Wrong time to try to find a construction gig in Southern California. Worse time to try to find a construction gig with no experience.

True dat.

I build houses in the Santa Ynez Valley for a living. Not with hammers but with schedules and CAD programs and spreadsheets. I like my job actually. My clients usually suck, but the houses I get to work on are pretty nifty and the locations are always beautiful.

Here's the thing about construction, no one does it because they want to. That means you don't really want to. Ask anyone in any trade on a site  how they got into construction. Not one of them will tell you: well ever since I watched Builder Bob cartoons as a kid I've wanted to be hot mopping roofs in 100 degree heat. Its the fulfillment of a dream! Nope, its always:

Well I was out of work and my buddy . . .

After I got kicked out of college I . . .

Well this is what my old man did so . . .

My cousin said he could get me work so I hopped the boarder. . .


Do not consider a construction job as a career choice. The work sucks, its sporadic at best right now and you will earn shit for money. Plus you'll have to invest many hundreds if not thousands of dollars in your own tools. You know who pays for that saw blade when in goes dull? Probably you. Having a summer of swinging hammers under your belt will help you in your engineering work, but now is not the time for it. I know framers so make the beast with two backsing talented they routinely call engineers on their mistakes and tell them exactly how they want the RFI drawn up so it matches the correction they already made because they sure as hell weren't going to wait around for a pencil pusher to get back to them next week. Some of these guys went 6 months without work last year. Not to be harsh, but they are not looking to babysit a noob at the moment. They have a hole to dig themselves out of. The only way to do that with contract work is to bust ass.

If its money you need you are better off waiting tables. If it is knowledge about how construction works, well I dunno. I got into construction by a complete fluke myself. I certainly didn't have an overwhelming ambition to work in this field. I kinda think no one does.

I suggest grad school to kill the time until the economy is better. Or a serious drug habit to help you piss the next decade away. Either way.

sac

[Randimus Maximus]

Many years ago, after High School, but before I decided I needed to go to college, I was toiling away as a Shift Manager at McDonald's.  It was an okay gig at the time, but the hours sucked and so did the pay.

I was still living at home with my parents and they had a renovation that required extensive masonry work done by a local contractor (this is in mid-Michigan).

Since I was home a couple of the days, I helped out a little bit here and there for no real good reason.

A few weeks later I find out that the mason contractor has an opening and I contact him about it.  With no experience, I got the job.  I also applied to a local junior college around the same time for their automotive service program.

I worked to the mason contractor for about two years.  It's a tough job.  I mainly worked on the crew that did block foundations and flatwork (finished concrete for basement floors, garages, driveways, sidewalks and such).  The company also did poured wall foundations and had a brick crew.  I helped out with each.  We worked in the hot, humid days of summer, and the miserably cold days of winter.  I had to buy tools, as well as the right clothing for the conditions (Carhartt became a well known brand).

The upside was the satisfaction in seeing the fruits of your labor (which I really, really miss today), as well as the fairly good physical shape I got into.

Downside was the hard working conditions (both weather and the physicality of the job) and the relatively low pay.

Would I do it again, in a heartbeat.

Would I do it today, if I had too, yes, but it still probably wouldn't pay the bills (my fault) and I'd probably get pissed at the shoddy construction workmanship I see nowadays.

[Timmy Tucker]

Sac speaks the truth. Horrible time to go into construction. I've been in the trades for over 15 years now, and I'm very good at what I do. Yet, even with that much experience, I'm jobless.

I've even toyed with the idea of going into business for myself again, but there just isn't enough work around to justify it. Things are so bad here, the most reputable builder in my area let all his guys go and has resorted to doing handyman work, and he's only working 1-2 days a week at that.

[mookieo2]

I dunno what unions you guys worked for

but

can you send me a contact?

I would love to stand around and earn a pension

this sitting around and napping is killing me

Yeh and union laborers in NYC make $45 an hour. Most of them work real hard and in shitty conditions.

[Popeye the Sailor]

OP-If you got an engineering degree, google "Space Systems Loral" and poke at the website. We're hiring almost a hundred engineers.

[erkishhorde]

OP-If you got an engineering degree, google "Space Systems Loral" and poke at the website. We're hiring almost a hundred engineers.

You can use a structural engineer?

I obviously don't WANT to do construction but my field of schooling is related to construction too so a shit market is a shit market regardless of which side of the equation I'm looking at.  I was just thinking of trying to broaden any chance I have of getting a little coin in my pocket. I've been out of work for 2 years and only have 5mo of office time under my belt when I first got out of school. Yay for being idealistic and putting personal well-being over money. I feel that the longer I'm out, the less chance I have of getting anything. I've got my BS but still haven't finished my MS project and would really rather be making coin than working on this project.

I know that I should be working on the project and should be able to knock it out quickly but every day I'm also looking for work and the depression just saps any will to be productive out of me. I've got no money left and am at home with the 'rents but I don't want to be a burden to them. Things with the 'rents are tough since my dad hates his job and wants to retire but can't because I'm being a bum at home so he's grouchy all the time and we yell at each other a lot. I've seriously considered just taking the bike out on the freeway and closing my eyes for a minute to see what happens. I'm just feeling... lost...

[hbliam]

so here's a question
you are a seasoned construction guy

you acknowledge that its a PITA to get in the buisness without experience

and yet you vote no on the union idea
that doesn't make any sense

The vast majority of construction in California is non-union. The only real union jobs are on government or huge commercial jobs. 99% of residential construction is non-union.

So, another vote for no union.

And I've been in the industry as a salesman since the mid 90's. I still sell but with the lack of work my sales are down 80-85%.

[GAAN]

I'm no expert by any means

but

I'm thinking that at this point you should just go get a job

any job

and

finish whatever an "MS project" is

also

maybe not ride till you get your head straight and your shit unmake the beast with two backsed

It's a lot harder to job hunt when you'rE a vegetable and your dad can't retire

ever

since he's paying the bills

and

your mom is wiping the drool off your quadriplegic chin