The really vague suspension thread

[Timmy Tucker]

My bike needs to be set up, as I'm probably 40-50 lbs heavier than the previous owner. The front end feels really mushy, but being my first bike, I'm honestly not really sure what it should feel like. I do know that it's not right for me, though. I don't need it to be the most aggressive track pregnant dog ever, but I want to be happy with the way it handles for the next couple of riding seasons, after my skills and experience grow.

The bike's a '99 M750, bone stock suspension. I'm 5'10, 215 lbs.

I'm just gonna throw a few questions out...

I need to keep the budget as reasonable as possible. I just don't have the $$ to throw at a full Ohlins upgrade. I'm guessing a re-spring front and back w/ new fork oil would be the most bang for the buck? Any other options?

I'm pretty good with all things mechanical, but I'm gonna leave this work to the pro's. Can anyone give me a general idea what I'll need parts wise and a rough idea how much $$ I'll need to throw at it?

Is this work any shop can do, or do I need to take it to the dealership? They're almost 2 hours away, and I have no idea what kind of reputation their service dept has.

Any recommendations for a shop in the Knoxville/East TN or Charlottesville/Richmond/Tidewater VA areas?.

[He Man]

a spring swap is very easy to do, theres a few tutorials floating around the internet. (check tutorials). i'd give it 2 haynes manual wrenches.

$100 for springs, $30 for oil (thats top notch oil, most oils are $15 bucks)

[Howie]

Does your bike have Marzocchi or Showa forks? 

[Timmy Tucker]

Does your bike have Marzocchi or Showa forks?  

How do I tell the difference?


And where's a good place to get springs online?

[ducpainter]

How do I tell the difference?


And where's a good place to get springs online?

If you look on the inside of the lower legs there will be an S cast in if it's Showa.

I've heard that the hex on the top is 17 or 19mm on Showa with Marzocchi being more like 28mm.

Race-tech has a good selection of springs for both, and other internal mods for Showa

[Timmy Tucker]

This is all the info I could find on my forks. I guess this means that they are Marzocchi? Sorry for all the hand holding. All this shit's new to me.

[Cloner]

I second the Race-Tech recommendation.  Good folks to deal with.

A simple spring and oil change does require something to hold the spring down on the damper rod whilst you remove the fork caps, but no biggie, there.  A suitable tool can be made from a small piece of steel or aluminum plate and a few minutes of your time.  You're not removing the damper rod, so that's not a problem.  You'll also need a tool to set fork oil level.  This can be done with a tape measure or steel scale, but it's easier with Race Tech's tool.  The tool looks like a horse syringe, but with an adjustable length "needle".  Basically, you overfill the fork and use the tool to suck out the excess oil down to the correct level via the tool's adjustable "needle."

It's best to do this with the forks off the bike so you can invert each leg and exercise the damper rods to drain as much fluid as possible.  Also, the forks should be vertical when measuring the oil level, which is difficult with the forks on the bike.  As long as you have a suitable front stand or can suspend the bike by some other means, this is the best option IMHO.

Changing shock springs does usually require a spring compressor.  Any local shop that has one will suffice.  You could buy your own, but you'll probably only use it this once, so it makes better sense to just pay someone who has one to do this for you.  Many automotive shops have strut spring compressors that will suffice for this purpose....if you happen to have friends who works on cars but not bikes that might be useful.

A final note on working inside forks.  Just like with engine internals, KEEP IT CLEAN!!!  Any debris that enters the fork legs can foul up the damping, so don't let anything that ought not be inside the forks get in there.

As to dealers in the Knoxville/East Tennessee region, you could try Destination Motorcycles if you're adventurous.  I knew several of the folks who worked there when Milt ran the joint, but I don't know anything about them, now.  They used to be in Lenoir City, but they moved to Kingston Pike over near Lovell Road last I heard.  I liked Milt greatly, but I never liked their service department very much.  Things may have changed with the change in ownership, though.   I do trust the folks at Myers over in Asheville, NC, and can recommend them if you don't mind driving a bit.  They're on Sweeten Creek Road near Biltmore House if you know much about that area.  There's also a new dealer in Chattanooga, TN called Pandora.  They're on Hwy 58N a couple of miles off of Hwy 153 if you're interested in them.  I know a few folks who've had their bikes serviced over there to good reviews, but I have no personal experience with them.

[Timmy Tucker]

Well, Destination is the "local" dealer I'm referring to. Never heard anything good about the old service dept. Don't know anything about them since they moved in w/ Ultimate Powersports (or whoever it was) except that the new showroom kicks ass.

Asheville is about the same distance for me 1.5-2 hours. Chattanooga is 3.5 hours, a little too far.

The cities in VA I listed are places that I frequent every few months, so it would be no problem for me to take the bike to those areas.  


The main problem I have w/ working on it myself is that I don't have anywhere indoors to do the work. I was renting a heated storage unit, but it's getting too full to use as a garage now.

[JEFF_H]

i would say springs now, and keep your eye out for a deal on adj showas from a 94-99 M900 (will need new springs too )

[He Man]

The main problem I have w/ working on it myself is that I don't have anywhere indoors to do the work. I was renting a heated storage unit, but it's getting too full to use as a garage now.

Just pull the forks off, and do it inside. all you need is a bucket. to pour out the oil. It shouldnt take you more than 30 mins t pull the forks off, 1hr if youve never done it before. how cold is it outisde? (its warm right now, but usually about 15-20 over here).

[Drunken Monkey]

I'll add the obvious: Have you checked the front tire pressure? That's the most common cause of a vague-feeling front end

[Cloner]

Asheville is about the same distance for me 1.5-2 hours. Chattanooga is 3.5 hours, a little too far.

I'd call the folks over at Myers, then, if you want it professionally done.  They're good folks, and that dealership has been there since the stone age.  It's small (though they were talking about expanding), but they know what time it is with reference to Ducati motorcycles.

As I said earlier, it's a simple job, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself just haul it to Asheville.

You located somewhere up I-81, then?  Maybe take 26 across to Asheville?  Maybe up around Mountain City or something?  Just a guess.   [moto]

[Timmy Tucker]

You located somewhere up I-81, then?  Maybe take 26 across to Asheville?  Maybe up around Mountain City or something?  Just a guess.   [moto]

I'm in Greeneville. It's halfway between Morristown and Johnson City on I-81.

In all honesty, I'd rather do the work myself. I'm no stranger to a wrench, but I've always heard that getting a great setup on a bike is akin to black magic. I know I can swap out springs and shit like that, but I wouldn't know where to start making adjustments after all that.

[Cloner]

Post up and we'll work you through it after you get the springs installed.  About all you can do with the suspension you have is set spring sag, ride height, and fork height (by dropping the triple clamps on the fork legs) anyway.  It's not "black magic", but simple geometry.

The springs rates are chosen for the weight of bike plus rider.  Front sag is set to a known value.....approximately 25mm for "sprited" riding, or a little more (30 to 35mm) for a cushier ride.  If you have "nonadjustable" suspension this is often done via tubes installed between the springs and fork caps, otherwise it's done via screw adjusters through the fork caps.  Rear sag is set to a known value....approximatley zero for spirited riding or a little more (10 to 20 mm) for a cushier ride.  This is done via the shock's threaded spring collar.

The ride height and fork height are set depending upon the desired handling characteristics of the bike.  If it's difficult to turn the bike you can raise the rear in increments until it suits you.  If you top out the adjustment on the rear (your bike should have factory ride height adjustment where the "wishbone" connects to the swingarm) and it's still slow steering, you drop the front in increments until it feels well, insuring that the bike isn't unstable at speed...which for most Ducatis takes quite some time to achieve.  My Supersport is up nearly 25mm out back (via the ride height adjustment on the Ohlins shock I fitted) and down 19mm out front (forks stick up through the triples) to make it turn reasonably well.

Damping changes are more difficult to explain well, but still aren't rocket science, so when you fit adjustable suspension we'll help you through that, too.  One word on adjustable Showas, though, is that they aren't terribly adjustable in their stock form.  They can, however, be made well adjustable, unlike the Marzocchis, via Race Tech gold valves.

I've been to Greeneville, TN for US Desmo's Ducks Head West rally.  Neat little town......"little" being the operative word, there.

[Timmy Tucker]

Word.

Think I'll give it a go whenever I get all the shit together.