anyone use phazer 3000 ethanol treatment

[sbrguy]

instead of startron or stabil

the video in their marketing seems to solve the whole ethanol thing

http://www.phaser3000.com

curious if anyone knows of this stuff?

[DoubleEagle]

Eastwood Company makes a product called Fuel Guard that treats the bad effects of E10 and recommends using it all the time you are using E10.

It was one of the new products written up in the March issue of Cycle World pg. 69.

8 ozs. treats 30 gallos of gas .

Use 1 oz. per 5 gallons of gas for Motorcycles.

We would get 8 fill ups per $8 bottle / $1 per fill up.....pretty reasonable .

Cost for the 8 oz. plastic bottle $7.99.

Dolph    

[zooom]

Eastwood Company makes a product called Fuel Guard that treats the bad effects of E10 and recommends using it all the time you are using E10.

It was one of the new products written up in the March issue of Cycle World pg. 69.

8 ozs. treats 30 gallos of gas .

Use 1 oz. per 5 gallons of gas for Motorcycles.

We would get 8 fill ups per $8 bottle / $1 per fill up.....pretty reasonable .

Cost for the 8 oz. plastic bottle $7.99.

Dolph     

yeah, but do they sell it in lil 1oz vials?....if not, then you have to ride around with a lil 1.5oz measuing cup like what comes on a bottle of Robitussin or Nyquil and this 8oz bottle with you all the time for this very purpose...

[sbrguy]

zoom i agree that your method may be the best overall, but i only really use the ethanol products for the whole sitting and separation issue, me i thnk that as long as you put some in when you get home with almost a full tank then you are good,

now if you go on a long ride and have to fill up multiple times, i'm making the assumption that the fueld doesn't have time to separate out fast enough, so you woldn't need it in the 1 oz bottles.  even if you go on a week long trip you are going through fuel everyday practically, but then again i could be wrong about all this.

[DoubleEagle]

I may be wrong in this thinking ...but I always fill up before I go home from a ride, meaning I don't have more than 10 miles off a full tank.

So when I get home put an ounce in and have an ounce in an empty pill vial or find some other small plastic container to stick in my Lumbar pack for a fill up while on the road next time out.

Dolph     [moto]

[fastwin]

I fill up not even a mile from my house after every long ride. When I get home I give the tank a splash of Sta-Bil. Most of the tanks on my scooters are 4-5 gallon capacity so I pour in 2-3 oz. and give them a good shake and fork bounce. Since I have more than one bike at least some of them are always sitting longer than others. I too am not worried about taking fuel additive with me on rides when I'm burning gas. Just the time they sit parked in the garage.

I need to check out that Fuel Guard product. I saw that write up in CW but haven't read it yet. I have bikes that sometimes sit for a long time locked up at my farm in the barn. My routine with them is if they haven't been ridden lately I syphon all the fuel and replace it with fresh premium gas/Sta-Bil mix and pour the old bike gas into my truck fuel tank. I'll do that every 3-4 months if they haven't been ridden and freshly refueled. 

Sounds like this ethanol problem is about to get worse.

[Duc796canada]

Not to jack the thread, but since we are the topic, I just saw a video on Seafoam and it promises a lot, including fuel stabilization, what is the word form this community?

[fastwin]

I tried it but for no negative reason regarding Seafoam I have remained with Sta-Bil. I know of some folks that swear by it but I have no tried and true stories to relate about it. Of course it's not like Sta-Bil has saved my life or anything either. I just tend to think the lack of problems I have had with sitting bikes is some sort of nonscientific proof to me that it helps.

I have two plastic tank Ducs and yes the have swelled some with Sta-Bil treated fuel but not very much compared to what I have read from others. Also, I have a carbed Kawi ZRX1200 and when it's been sitting for awhile (even with Sta-Bil in the tank) I still fire it up once every 7-10 days and let it idle to get up to operating temp in the garage just to get some fresh, treated fuel through the carbs.

I'm not sure anything is the magical silver bullet we all have been hoping for. Maybe the new Fuel Guard product is the next greatest thing since sliced bread. I just don't see things getting any better at all with pump gas in the future. Guess that leaves things looking good business wise for all the aftermarket fuel additive companies.

[Scissors]

Sounds like snake oil.  According to the data sheet for that product:
"In this process, Phaser 3000 adheres itself to H2O molecules in the phase separated gasoline by breaking the “H” bond from the H2O molecule and adhering itself to that H2O molecule, thus returning the separated layers back into one mixture."

Too bad that's complete BS.   

[Howie]

This is the magic ingredient:
2 – butoxyethanol

What does it do?  It is a solvent, more than that I do not know.  Any chemists out there?

[Ddan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol

[Mau]

I found a good read on the topic.

Phase Separation in Gasoline’s containing Ethanol is now a major problem for all users of gasoline.

Whether you use gasoline as a fleet operator or for your family car, classic car, boat, personal water-craft, motorcycle, snowmobile, ATV, RV, lawnmower, weed-whacker, generator, or any of the thousands of other types of equipment that use gasoline engines; you are being affected by Ethanol in your fuel.

Phase Separation describes what happens to gasoline containing Ethanol when water is present. When gasoline containing even small amounts of Ethanol comes in contact with water, either liquid or in the form of humidity; the Ethanol will pick-up and absorb some or all of that water. When it reaches a saturation point the Ethanol and water will Phase Separate, actually coming out of solution and forming two or three distinct layers in the tank.

Use the link below to see full article.
http://www.wellworthproducts.com/articles/phaseseparation.asp

[fastwin]

Good explanation. Thanks for the post! Like I said, this problem ain't going way!

[Scissors]

The best way to minimize the issue, short of avoiding gasohol in the first place, is to keep your tank as full as possible to help keep water vapor from entering the tank as temperature changes cause the air to expand and contract; and to run through the fuel often enough to avoid phase separation and expel any water which does work its way in.  Honestly, though, you'd have to try really, really hard to get phase separation in a motorcycle fuel tank.  It's more a problem on boats where there's a lot more exposure to water.  Plus boats tend to have fuel tanks which don't respond well to the ethanol itself and break down entirely.

The water gets into the tank as vapor through the vent lines (or around the cap seal, if it's bad).  This is true even without ethanol in your fuel.  Without ethanol, however, the water simply settles to the bottom until it gets temporarily mixed back into the fuel from the movement of the bike while riding.  It gets sucked up by the fuel pump and harmlessly passed as part of your exhaust.  As such only the bottom of your tank would be exposed to water often.

With ethanol, however, conditions change a bit.  While ethanol isn't specifically hydrophilic, it is miscible with water, meaning that they mix well.  So the ethanol and water mix, and the ethanol keeps it suspended in the fuel until, as above, it gets sucked up and exhausted from the system.  In this case much more of the tank's interior surface comes into contact with the water.  Since the nylon used in the tank can absorb up to ~9% of its mass in water, this is a bad thing.

The other problem here is that in ethanol blends, the ethanol itself is depended upon to provide some of the octane rating.  So when you get so much water that the water/ethanol solution falls to the bottom of the tank (phase separates) the octane of the remaining gas drops.  But, again, you'd have to try really hard to get phase separation in a motorcycle.

Since riding often constantly cycles the fuel, and thus the water and ethanol, this should be more of an issue for bikes which sit for longer periods of time, especially in humid environments.

Wondering aloud here:  if one were to attach, say, a partiall-inflated bag securely to the vent line, it should minimize the amount of water vapor which works its way into the tank, while giving the air which is already in there room to expand and contract.  This might be a smart move for those who store their bikes for weeks or months at a time.

[ducatiz]

This is the magic ingredient:
2 – butoxyethanol

What does it do?  It is a solvent, more than that I do not know.  Any chemists out there?

and more specifically, does it interact with Nylons/polyamides?