SBK fork on S2R questions - now conversion complete for $331 total

[cobrajet]

Been looking for reasonable adjustable forks for my 800 S2R and have noticed the SBK forks being way more available used. If I obtain a set with the 65 mm caliper spacing, shim my lower triple and have the crown bored 3 mm over to 53 mm is there anything else that has to be done? Have based this on search results but am I missing anything? thanks, bill

[junior varsity]

me thinks no.

you are likely going to want the SBK axle as well because it will be cross drilled to allow access to the adjusters that are through the bottom of the fork lowers.


i would recommend grabbing some 4 pot goldline calipers (still 65mm mount) and 320mm rotors at some point too, but that's just me. Those are also direct bolt ons with that setup

[stopintime]

+1 on the larger calipers and 320mm rotors

When you get decent suspension you're actually able to brake hard without the forks bottoming out, and then you'll want better brakes.

These two mods doesn't improve your bike - they make it a new bike [moto]
(maybe a good shock included)

(yes, you can do it step by step)

[junior varsity]

dunno what your budget or access to machine shop is like, but if you don't want to bore the stock triple and shim the lower, you can order a set of triples with upper and lower at 53mm.   Something you might want to investigate. (that's how i did it, but there's also a lot more work to do on a pre-02 model)

[booger]

You may need to have the forks themselves serviced, depending on their age and usage. Most places completely disassemble the forks, clean/inspect all the components, polish the fork tubes, replace the seals, then rebuild with fresh oil. SBK forks are sprung for SBKs, but the stock springs are 1.0kg and are usually fairly good, depending on your weight. You should be right at $300 with all parts and labor on a base rebuild/respring. If you want an additional fancy valving upgrade you'll be at around $650.

As far as the valving goes the stock stuff is not too bad. They usually can make some minor tweaks to the stock components that will give you a significant improvement in feel and traction. With this service you are sitting at around $385. For another $125 they can re-shim the OEM valving to make the forks work better. That would be the most bang for the buck deal. It all depends on your budget and requirements, but there are many options.

Of course if you happen to be in the weight range that specifies a 1.0kg spring then you could just bolt the forks on and go. However you might not be able to get away with that. Do some math and see. Don't need a new axle, just drill the 8mm holes in the one you have to access the rebound adjusters and it would accomplish the same thing.

You don't absolutely need new brakes & triples, but they would be nice. Be sure and check the head bearings to make sure they're good. Victory loves preparation on this, but it's not too difficult.

[caperix]

The SBK forks are longer than the S2R forks so you will need to either space the bar or switch to clip-ons.  My '04 620 had a drilled axle from the factory, so it may be worth taking a look at yours.

[booger]

As caperix mentioned, the forks are going to stick up about 35mm above the top triple. You might need to buy clipons because I don't think the stock handlebars will clear the tops of the forks.

So, it's more expensive than you think.

A true bolt-on solution is to send your forks to GP Suspension in Portland, OR. They refit the guts of the stock forks to be fully adjustable, and since the forks won't stick up above the triple you don't have to worry about going to clipons. No drilling the stock axle either, all adjustments are made at the tops of the forks. Supposedly it works quite well. It costs $1300, but basically takes all of the hassle out of upgrading your front suspension.

Another way is to somehow find some S2R1000 forks, but they are extremely rare and the springs and valving are not as good as SBK forks. If you could find a set of '05 S4R forks, that would be the real ticket. They have the preferable linear springs and better valving. However they're harder to come by than S2R1000 forks.

[cobrajet]

I did check for clearance under the bars thinking they would be a an inch and a quarter longer but I did not take into account the part on the adjustables that sicks above the caps. Servicing the forks isn't an issue, been riding motocross for 40 yrs and have someone that's an ex factory race team wrench that does my suspension. Really did not have to want to go to clip-ons, if that's the case I'll look really hard for some s4r stuff first. Are clip-ons going to be needed with ST-x legs too? thanks for all your input, bill.

[junior varsity]

You may need to have the forks themselves serviced, depending on their age and usage. Most places completely disassemble the forks, clean/inspect all the components, polish the fork tubes, replace the seals, then rebuild with fresh oil. SBK forks are sprung for SBKs, but the stock springs are 1.0kg and are usually fairly good, depending on your weight. You should be right at $300 with all parts and labor on a base rebuild/respring. If you want an additional fancy valving upgrade you'll be at around $650.

As far as the valving goes the stock stuff is not too bad. They usually can make some minor tweaks to the stock components that will give you a significant improvement in feel and traction. With this service you are sitting at around $385. For another $125 they can re-shim the OEM valving to make the forks work better. That would be the most bang for the buck deal. It all depends on your budget and requirements, but there are many options.

Of course if you happen to be in the weight range that specifies a 1.0kg spring then you could just bolt the forks on and go. However you might not be able to get away with that. Do some math and see. Don't need a new axle, just drill the 8mm holes in the one you have to access the rebound adjusters and it would accomplish the same thing.

You don't absolutely need new brakes & triples, but they would be nice. Be sure and check the head bearings to make sure they're good. Victory loves preparation on this, but it's not too difficult.

I very much agree about steering head bearings. It is not difficult or expensive to replace these when the bike is mostly apart up front. These get worn pretty bad, especially if not routinely tightened (or overtightened!). Its regular maintenance that ought to be done and this is a good opportunity.

Fork fluid does age (albeit much slower than brake fluid). I would also recommend replacing fork oil (also an easy task). If you are somewhat heavier (close to or over 200) the SBK springs will feel better than the stock springs.  You will be able to tell quickly whether the seals are getting worn when looking at the forks, as well as condition of slider. If you can get forks with the TiNi or DLC coatings, you done good (these are more desirable than the plain chrome sliders).

If fork seals are blown, or look ragged (not just the external dust cover - it can be misleading, the actual seal is internal) then you can (should?) use this rebuild opportunity to put in fresh fluid, and if the OEM springs aren't quite right (too strong/too weak) you'll have an opportunity to change them. If you are good at budgeting (y'know, its springtime, riding season is nearly upon us in the south/southeast), you may want to acquire parts over the summer and perhaps even send the forks for rebuilding (or do it yourself) before taking bike apart in the winter for the rebuild.

I don't know where you are, but usually you'll be able to find a great suspension shop to do the work for you if you have not the tools or expertise for the job. When I was in Tennessee, and several hours from Alain at Corse Motorsports, I had suspension stuff done by Traxxion Dynamics (via mail) located North of Atlanta. I lucked out in moving to Dallas in that the local Ducati shop, AMS, has Jeff Nash and Jordan Rhodes who are great with suspension builds/rebuilds and excel at the set-ups part. The whole shim-stack element is still a bit of a mystery to me, but they seem to really be able to dial in the damping characteristics and such. This is certainly beyond me at this point, but then again, Jeff was racing in AMA for years and years and had lots of opportunities to test out different stacks and settings on the 748/916/996 era and supermono racebikes.

If you can't find a place local (if you got a duc dealer you like, help them keep the lights on!), and perhaps Traxxion doesn't seem convenient to you, I'm sure there's other places you'll be able to find to your liking. There's shops like Kyle USA (Dan Kyle), DucShop, Lindemann Engineering, among a long list of others.



As far as clipons/risers, etc - The forks "may" interfere with your handlebar setup depending on your current setup. Bars with different rise/sweep sometimes interfere with the fork caps at a lower height than others. You could go for clipons - and there's a bunch of options out there, some with risers to make them more like the stock bars, while others are flat like the superbike handlebars providing greater control and more weight over the front wheel. You'll need 53mm clipons, and you'll need to decide whether you want ones with rise or without, and whether you want to mount those clipons above or below the top triple.

More details on clipons: On a SBK, the clipons are mounted below the top triple.  I had CycleCat clipons for the Monster on mine for a long time. They had quite a bit of rise. I had these mounted below the triple for a long time. Two years ago I rode the bike from Dallas, TX to Las Vegas, NV. For this trip, I mounted a little flyscreen out front to help deflect the wind, bugs, and tumbleweeds, and I moved the clipons above the top triple to maximize comfort (its damn near all straight-line riding, might as well be able to sit back and relax a bit more). To do this, I needed to raise the bars ever so slightly in the triples to ensure there was enough room for the clamps on the fork tubes. (Prior to going to SBK forks, so the forks were a smidge shorter back then), now I got lotsa room with 996 forks.

More on clipons: How they go together can become a bit of a nuisance: If your bike has coffins, you may require the spacer so that the bleed nipple and banjo fittings won't interfere with the bar's pinch bolts/mount location on the clipon bracket. Similarly, some clipon manufacturers were forward thinking enough to not put those damn pinch bolts in the front of the clipon bar, but either on the top or behind. CycleCat did it 'on top', which made it less of an issue for everyone; Vortex puts them out front, as does the NCR/Ferracci/DP style which can interfere with the masters on certain setups (its a bit in the way for my Brembo GP master cylinders' bleed nipples); Woodcraft puts a single pinch bolt below the bar.

Beyond the pinch bolts for the bar, there's also the pinch bolts that clamp the riser to the fork tube. Common design is one M8 or two M6 pinch bolts located at one point on the circumference of the clamp circle. To install these below the top triple, you must remove the top triple. But that design also takes up the least amount of room and can weigh less. To solve this problem (while creating others), manufacturers have designed two piece clamps (woodcraft - divides clamp into two halves using 4 bolts to hold the halves together) or hinged clamps (speedymoto - hinged to open and install on fork, uses bolts to secure it together in a single location like the traditional design).

Lastly on clipons - there's the angle of the bar and proprietary bar design to consider. There are "magic numbers" that manufacturers like to pick for the angle of the bar for wrist comfort, leverage, and fairing clearance (keep in mind most are designed for superbike setups). These numbers range from as little as 4 deg (terrible. for shame.) to 9 degrees (7,8,9 seem pretty common, most common?). You can adjust the "pull back" on clipons by simply loosening the pinch bolt and rotating the clamp about the fork tube.   One thing to look out for is the "proprietary clipon bar" design. CycleCat did this: The bar was machined at the end to fit into an eccentric inside the riser clamp. You could adjust the eccentric and alter the angle of the bars and pull back etc, without moving your controls. But, you boner one of those bars at the track or out in the country, and you'll have to find one of those specific bars to make your setup work again. This might not have been so bad - just a big nuisance... until CycleCat went tits up! Bike gets knocked over in a parking lot and you bend a bar? Can't get one from the manufacturer anymore... an easy $20-40 replacement bar just turned into a $200+ endeavor!      SpeedyMoto has also incorporated an "adjustable clipon bar" design.... But good news here: The clamps are not bar-specific: You fubar your set of bars, you aren't done for - they claim any generic clipon bar will work. (Note: they also sell replacement angled bars, but its nice to know that in a CycleCat situation, you are *required* to go buy a new complete clipon setup).

I've got a lot of pictures I can post to show these various concepts if you like. I put kind of a lot of info down, not sure how much is helpful or applicable. Kind of a mind-dump for you. Sort through the mess and find a few nuggets of your liking

[corey]

^^

one note on axles. be wary of the SBK axles, as some of them may have improper spacing attributes for your S2R wheel. i cannot guide you as to WHICH axle to choose. i would advise to check YOUR axle first, as i have heard of some lucky folks just getting one with the adjustment holes on their bikes, regardless of whether or not they are adjustable.
i can definitely tell you that a 999 axle won't work...

speaking of... anyone need a 999 axle?

I recently put 999 forks onto my S2R800. Probably the most complex an SBK swap can get, because the 749/999 parts are the ones that are kinda oddball in the ducati family. Due to the various tapers and whatnot in the fork body, i did have to drop my front end a bit, but i really like the way it effected the handling of the bike.
I have 2-inch rise clipons below the triple (rather aggressive, but again, i like it), and i DID have to use spacers for my coffin reservoirs.
I also lowered the gauges below the triple, used headlight collars from CNC Italy to lower the headlight (available now from bellisimoto.com, one of our sponsors), and had to have caliper spacers made (which wouldn't be an issue with any other SBK forks as far as i know)...

I did tapered steering bearings as well. As long as you're in there you may as well do it.
All in all i was probably about $1500 in, but i had sick set of freshly rebuilt 999 forks with an (overkill) ohlins UES kit installed. Yum.
Totally transformed the bike.

Brakes still suck though

[junior varsity]

749/999 axle is different than 748-916-996-998 axle in regards to the spacing built in and spacers needed. I think the 748-916-996-998 axles are the same as the Monster axles (2000+ through 695). The 848/1098/1198/SF/MTS1200 front axle is different again from both the 749/999 and the 748/916/996/998

[badgalbetty]

here is what I did......I bought some DP forks for the S2R800.They were too long which was not a problem because at the time I was using a Speedymoto handlebar clamp which is far taller than the stock unit so the fork adjusters fit under it with no issues.I did change my handlebars to the Speedymoto tall boys and they also fit with no issues.If you look at their stock photos for that item they are pictured on my old bike.
 The stock S2R800 forks are not adjustable and not rebuildable. It is a crimped cartridge and even Dave over at GP cannot do anything with that POS Marzocchi front end. So unless he is going to put a whole new cartridge in which he may be doing now the stock S2R800 is not going to be adjustable. Been there , done that. Ok, so know as far as the axle goes, why replace it.I drilled mine out and then was able to adjust the bottom adjustment screws with no issues. Why does everyone seem to think they need a new axle when all you have to do is drill two small holes and be done with it? Just make sure you clean the burrs off the axle before you go shoving it back through the forks....last thing you want to do is start tearing up fork lowers and gettig an axle stuck.
Anyway, GP Suspension is the place to go , full on suspension gurus. Thats all they do. Ohlins and Penske dealer/rebuilder etc. They also stock Eibach springs which are an excellent spring so that you can have a truly awesome ride. Ask the Madduc who bought my bike.

[junior varsity]

what are DP forks?  The ohlins kit out of the catalog?



also on the axle - make sure not to over-tighten/torque the fork lowers' axle pinch bolts! You can oval the hell out of those axles that way.

[badgalbetty]

DP =Ducati Performance.
The DP forks for the S2R are left over forks that Ducati has and they decided to use them up. They are a fully adjustable Showa fork. They were in the DP catalogue but measured 47 mm longer. Funny how Ducati did not figure that one out .They cost me $800.00 and were a special order......Speedymoto handle bar clamp fixed the problem which I was already using.

[junior varsity]

Didn't remember seeing that in the catalog. Sounds like they are the leftover forks from the SS lineup (given their length, adjustability, and the fact that they SS lineup has been discontinued)