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Author Topic: Tips for Blips?  (Read 9329 times)
Monsterlover
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2011, 06:37:28 PM »

There is no spoon clutch
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2011, 07:24:33 PM »

There is no spoon clutch


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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2011, 02:08:35 PM »

I hope this is not to off topic. When you engine brake on the street do you (generic "you") cocern yourself about no brake light?
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Monsterlover
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2011, 02:42:28 PM »

If someone is tail gating me or if I'm in traffic I use the lever and flash it off and on to get their attention
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"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2011, 06:32:03 PM »

from this thread
http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=31867

thought it basically addresses this perfectly:

keith code on braking and downshifting
Brake/Down Changing Gears Like a Pro

Barriers Open Doors

To make real improvement there must first exist a real barrier to overcome or a real result to achieve. These are always based on the rider?s own desires: to go faster; be more in control; have fewer panic situations; put it all together into a smooth flow or simply remove doubts and questions they have relating to those goals: when do the tires slide, how hard can I brake, how far can I lean the bike and so on.

When you look at it you?ll see that there is very little difference, if any, between a riding barrier and a riding goal; they both have the same stumbling blocks. They both have an end result to achieve. They both have some fear or uncertainty or distraction attached to them. There is always a barrier.

The Braking & Downshifting Barrier

An example of a common barrier would be the complications that arise from the hurried and slightly frantic control operations that stem from not learning to smoothly and simultaneously brake and downshift for traffic lights, obstructions and, of course, corners.

Doesn?t sound like a life or death threatening situation but when inspected closely you see what impact it really has on a rider?s attention and how they are spending it.

Check it out, if the rider can?t do braking and downshifting, simultaneously and smoothly, they are forced into one or more of the following attention draining scenarios:

1. Slowly letting out the clutch to make the downshift smoothly. This requires attention to be spent and is the most common way uneducated riders handle it.

2. Having to change gears once the bike is stopped. When the bike is stopped even the best transmissions can be sticky. Gears change more easily and more positively when the bike is moving. It causes less wear on the gearbox to change the gears while you are moving.

3. Having to change the gears after the braking is completed for a turn. That means doing it in the curve. This is distracting and can upset the bike, to say nothing of the rider.

4. Alternately going from the brake to the gas to match revs for the downshifts. This has the bike pogoing at the front. It does not get the bike slowed down quickly in an efficient manner. This is very busy riding.

5. Downshift before braking. This is fine for very relaxed riding situations at slow speeds but is hazardous to the engine if the rider is in ?spirited cornering? mode as it provides the opportunity to over-rev the motor and bypass the rev limiter that protects it. Could be very expensive. In an emergency situation you don?t have time to do this because you should be on the brakes right away. Not only that but some emergencies require you to brake and then get on the gas right away for accelerating hard to avoid things like cars running a light on you. In this case the rider would not have the time to get it done.

6. Forget it entirely and just go through the corner. This forces downshift(s) to be done at the corner?s exit thus losing the drive out and complicating the whole thing by having to make a gear change when they should be rolling on the throttle. This is distracting and not smooth at all.

Coordination And Concentration

It is true that if a rider was uncoordinated and attempts simultaneous braking and downshifting it could be dangerous. For example having the front brake on along with the power can make your front wheel lock up.

On our panic-stop training bike I have seen it many times: the rider aggressively squeezes the brake and unconsciously rolls the throttle on at the same time. It?s spooky to watch. So yes, practice and coordination are necessary, you will have to practice.

More importantly, you have to make a decision. Are the 6 potential distractions above likely to get you into trouble? They do break the rider?s concentration even if only slightly. In other words: if you aren?t a super hero at multitasking each of the 6 is a negative in comparison with braking and downshifting simultaneously.

In Control = In Communication

Continuous perception of your speed is how you control it. Accurate turn entry speed is critical to good, confident cornering. If you are worried about your speed, you are distracted by it.

Finding the right turn entry speed (for you) is far easier when the braking and downshifting are happening in one continuous flow of change. When compared to one that is chopped up, incomplete or creates anxiety like having to shift in the turn, it?s obvious which scenario is better. Your Sense of Speed is a precious resource and is far more accurate when monitored as a steady stream with your awareness.

Maintaining a continuous state of awareness of what the bike itself is doing is another of the true benefits of this technique. You always know where the engine speed is in relation to the road speed and that improves your feel for the bike.

Your communication with the machine improves; no false signals or guess work; no waiting to know how the bike will respond in any of the above scenarios. You ability to maintain communication with the bike is important input.

Naming It

Simultaneous braking and downshifting. I?d like to shorten it to something like brake-down. Car guys call it heel and toe, which is a nice, short and simple way of saying they are simultaneously using the brake pedal with their toe and revving the motor with their heel. In some cars you just put the ball of your foot between the brake and gas pedals and rock your foot side to side to do it, it depends on the pedal arrangement. On a bike, provided the brake lever is comfortably adjusted to fit your hand, they are always in the same position for our maneuver.

Alright, for now it is brake-down. It would be interesting to have a non rider hear about you executing a ?breakdown? coming into a curve; sounds pretty dangerous. How about fist and fingers or palm and fingers or B&Ding, ?

Whatever we call it, it works to simplify corner entries and puts the rider in command of and in communication with his machine to the highest possible degree.

The Sequence

1. Gas goes off.
2. Brake goes on.
3. Bike slows some.
4. Clutch comes in.
Maintain brake lever pressure.
5. Blip the gas rapidly on and off. (Usually no more than a quarter turn).
Maintain brake lever pressure.
6. During the blip make the gear change positively and quickly.
Maintain brake lever pressure.
7. Clutch comes out.
Maintain brake lever pressure until desired turn entry speed is achieved.
8. Release brake smoothly.

Bear this in mind: the quicker you do steps #1 through #7 the better.

Brake Lever Control

Expert use of the brake during this entire cycle means that you can maintain, increase or decrease the pressure as desired, without abruptly stabbing or releasing the brake lever.

Number of Fingers

Some riders let their finger(s) slide over the brake lever as they blip the gas. Others grab the brake lever with the tips of their finger(s) and still get a continuous lever pressure without the bike pogoing up and down.

Whichever way you do it is fine. How many fingers you use for the brake is up to you: one, two, three or four, this is your choice although I recommend you try just two fingers, your index and middle ones.

What?s Important?

Braking is important, it is life and death on the street and vital on the track. Changing gears is not. You can still make it through the corner or get the bike stopped without ever touching the gears. But, riders do have the six above scenarios to contend with if they can?t do the fist/finger, down-brake, palm/finger, B&Ding technique.

Learning How

The fact that riders have a problem doing this technique led me to a solution. I?ve built a bike that trains it. We call it the Control Trainer. It takes you through the technique, step by step.

The trainer?s computer program talks you through the whole sequence and it points out your problems and how to correct them. The computer is hooked up on a static ZX9, you can?t ride it but you do get the coordination/muscle memory necessary to do it for real.

Each of the controls is monitored for: correct sequence; correct timing of the clutch and gear changes; correctly sized throttle blips and consistent brake pressure, throughout the whole process.

With or without my Control Trainer, anyone can learn to do it. Start now.

? Keith Code
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2011, 04:50:55 PM »

Sorry for a stupid question, but... when do you actually blip?

On a car, you really need to do it only when going down to a gear that is too low for the speed, to reset the sync. Otherwise, it won't let you in the gear. So, on a car, while breaking: clutch, gear out to neutral, blip, shift down, gas to match (not blip), clutch.

I expected the same technical reasons for a bike, so I blip before shifting down. From what I see in this thread, it looks like you guys blip already after the shift, is that correct? Would you please explain me the technical reason of the process? Am I missing something?
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Monsterlover
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2011, 05:18:28 PM »

Clutch in

Blip and downshift at the same time

Clutch out while the rpm is still up.

That's the short of it.
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"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2011, 05:42:24 PM »

So you go into the gear on a higher revs? But what is a reason? Isn't it bad for the gearbox?

My Monster sounded so painful when I did it once or two when shifting to the first with a slightly open choke. Or is it different in other gears?
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2011, 05:54:32 PM »

Well, going into first I would probably just get to second and coast to a stop.

When I'm riding in a non urban environment I don't normally have to use first.

The reason to do this is get into a lower gear (coming into a corner off a straight for example) so that as you slow for the corner you are already in the correct gear to get a good drive out of that corner.

The blip allows for a more precise downshift that doesn't upset the bikes suspension.



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"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**
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« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2011, 04:26:47 AM »

So you go into the gear on a higher revs? But what is a reason? Isn't it bad for the gearbox?

blipping makes things smoother, and matching the revs reduces strain on the gearbox

same reason you let the rev's fall when you're upshifting.  makes everything smoother.
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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2011, 05:15:17 AM »

I was a bit irritated by the 3d post in this thread:



[...]

Finally, when I get sloppy, I think about the cadence in my head while I'm doing it: clutch in (fast), downshift, blip, clutch out (slow).  Once my smoothness returns, I concentrate on other things, but it's helpful for me to review occasionally.

Then in the quote from another forum it was "Blip, then downshift". (That is what I am doing now)

Now, Monsterlover says, "downshift during the blip, clutch in while revs are high".




I was watching myself today on my way to work, I do put the gear in while the revs are a bit higher, but definitely after I actually drop the throttle. And it is surely not revving high anymore during the clutch release, so if I shift down two or more gears, I have to (because of very small biking experience) release it slowly while bringing the gas up, if necessary.

Am I doing it completely wrong?
In fact, mostly I worry about my Monster (m750 from 2001), would hate to hurt him by that kind of mistake.
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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2011, 06:19:53 AM »

i wouldnt worry about damaging the gearbox by not blipping... it's a minor thing really, it's more about not upsetting the suspension.

and from the keith code article i posted up top, keep in mind this is more about blipping while braking for a turn, but just remove the references for braking if that's not what youre looking to do:

The Sequence

1. Gas goes off.
2. Brake goes on.
3. Bike slows some.
4. Clutch comes in.
Maintain brake lever pressure.
5. Blip the gas rapidly on and off. (Usually no more than a quarter turn).
Maintain brake lever pressure.
6. During the blip make the gear change positively and quickly.
Maintain brake lever pressure.
7. Clutch comes out.
Maintain brake lever pressure until desired turn entry speed is achieved.
8. Release brake smoothly.

Bear this in mind: the quicker you do steps #1 through #7 the better.

and i dont blip the gas rapidly though... i just give it a good twist.
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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2011, 08:07:14 AM »

Thanks for explaining, Monsterlover, Thought.
I think, I got it.
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Monsterlover
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2011, 08:18:26 AM »

blipping makes things smoother, and matching the revs reduces strain on the gearbox

Yes.  More reduces clutch wear id think.  Hard to damage a gear box itself.  I, for the most part, never use the clutch to shift up or down on my 999 or KTM 950smr.  Just use it to pull away from a stop.

No damaged gear boxes.

Quote
same reason you let the rev's fall when you're upshifting.  makes everything smoother.

You let the rev's fall when you upshift?

Why?  That just delays clutch re-engagement and power back to the rear wheel.

I was a bit irritated by the 3d post in this thread:


Then in the quote from another forum it was "Blip, then downshift". (That is what I am doing now)

Now, Monsterlover says, "downshift during the blip, clutch in while revs are high".


The precision of the timing is important, but not that important.  The whole point of this is to get from when gear, down to the next gear as fast and as smooth as possible.  That means minimize the time between pulling the clutch lever and letting it back out.

For me, the more I can do at once makes for a speedier process.  Im also just used to doing it so keep that in mind.

Whether you clutch in-blip-shift-clutch out or clutch in-blip & shift-clutch out really doesn't matter.

All that matters is that it's a smooth and comfortable process for you

There's a lot of personal take on motorcycle riding.  Being comfortable matters a lot.  That's the priority.  Or it is for me at least.

Quote
I was watching myself today on my way to work, I do put the gear in while the revs are a bit higher, but definitely after I actually drop the throttle. And it is surely not revving high anymore during the clutch release, so if I shift down two or more gears, I have to (because of very small biking experience) release it slowly while bringing the gas up, if necessary.

Am I doing it completely wrong?
In fact, mostly I worry about my Monster (m750 from 2001), would hate to hurt him by that kind of mistake.

You're not doing it wrong.  Reread my post earlier in this thread about my technique on the track - going from 5th gear down to 3rd or second in one shot.  I know we're not talking track specifically, and it's a different bike, but the method is the same. 

Best thing to do is just ride the bike.  Enjoy the ride and worry less about if you're doing it right.  You'll be hard pressed to damage your transmission internals.  You'll wear a clutch out first, which isn't a big deal.  It is a wear item after all.

What you find to be comfortable will soon become second nature.

Then you'll end up on a superbike like I did, find out the clutch pull bothers your hand and figure out how to just ride without it if you need to

Wink
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2011, 08:42:08 AM »

I don't really think about it.

Just do what feels right.

The engine should be telling you what it wants with sound and feel.


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