DP ECU Question

[NAKID]

But your Mustang runs a MAF(Mass AirFlow sensor), MAP is Manifold Absolute Pressure...

[Justang]

But your Mustang runs a MAF(Mass AirFlow sensor), MAP is Manifold Absolute Pressure...

True, but the essentially do the same thing.  Just in different ways. 
MAF uses a filament to heat air to get the air density and air mass flow rate. 
MAP uses pressure (vacuum) to figure out air density and the engine's air mass flow rate. 

The MAF measures actual airflow into the engine.
The MAP uses pressure and an equation to "measure" airflow into the system. 
MAF is just a more accurate system.

[NAKID]

But (especially in larger engines) MAF is a limiting factor. The amount of air you can take in is determined by how big your MAF is. With MAP, you can use whatever size intake you want...

[Justang]

But (especially in larger engines) MAF is a limiting factor. The amount of air you can take in is determined by how big your MAF is. With MAP, you can use whatever size intake you want...

True, to an extent.  Once you peg a MAF you need to get one calibrated for more airflow, and they are typically larger.  If you get one calibrated for lots of air flow, low speed could suffer.  The MAF is great for naturally aspirated engines... MAPs, although typically harder to tune, are great for high HP forced induction engines.  There are many aftermarket MAF's for cars that can handle upwards of 1000hp.

But that's neither here nor there.  I'd really like to know how this fuel management system works... when it's open loop, when it's closed loop, ect...

[Ivan]

There's no feedback from the o2's with the DP ECU? 

No

How does the computer adjust for things like altitude? 

There is a barometric sensor located on one of the headlight brackets

Kind of a crappy system if this is true. 

Agreed, but this is how most bikes are, the FI systems are not as sophisticated as those you see on cars.

Is the PCIII a closed loop system?

Nope, its just a piggyback unit that adds or subtracts to the pulse width of the signals driving the injectors

Do you have a better Duc shop than Spectrum? 

Nope, I don't know of anyone that REALLY understands how the ECU works.

[Justang]

No

Wow, that's amazing to me. 

There is a barometric sensor located on one of the headlight brackets

What about air temp?  Is there a specific sensor for that?

Agreed, but this is how most bikes are, the FI systems are not as sophisticated as those you see on cars.

True, I just figured there would be some sort of feedback from the system.  Seems like there is none.  I mean if the bike does have a MAP sensor and the o2 sensor and the TPS sensor, ect, you would think it would take into consideration all of that data, even if it were just a table of correction factors based off that input. 

Nope, I don't know of anyone that REALLY understands how the ECU works.

That's a shame.  Does Ducati keep it a big secret?  Or is there just a general lack of knowledge? 

[Ivan]

What about air temp?  Is there a specific sensor for that?

There is one widget that provides both air temp and baro pressure on the S2R1K, I don't know about the other models.

True, I just figured there would be some sort of feedback from the system.  Seems like there is none.  I mean if the bike does have a MAP sensor and the o2 sensor and the TPS sensor, ect, you would think it would take into consideration all of that data, even if it were just a table of correction factors based off that input. 

The stock ECU presumably does do some form of adaptation based on the O2 sensor, it is the DP ECU that eliminates this.  Even tho the stock ECU adapts, it uses a narrowband sensor so it is always trying to maintain stoich, which is not what you want if you're loooking for a nice running engine and/or max power.  For performance, you want a closed loop system with a wideband sensor.

That's a shame.  Does Ducati keep it a big secret?  Or is there just a general lack of knowledge? 

I don't know, but it seems the former.  Dynojet has been trying to make a PCIII that would work with the S2R1K ECU for a couple of years, but they just can't seem to figure out how to make it work.  Last thing I heard was that they had given up.  Its in Ducati's best interest to keep it a deep dark secret, so they can sell more DP ECUs.  Mind you, my comments all pertain to the S2R1k, since that is the only model I have any experience with.

[He Man]

Is the barometric sensor that weird shaped object that has a wire nut like extrusion? If so, i disconnected it to see what would happen, and atleast now i know why nothing happened since i was at sea level the whole time.

[NAKID]

Is the barometric sensor that weird shaped object that has a wire nut like extrusion? If so, i disconnected it to see what would happen, and atleast now i know why nothing happened since i was at sea level the whole time.

Where? The Air Temp Sensor is just behind the headlight of my S2R1k just like all of the newer Ducs...

[Justang]

There is one widget that provides both air temp and baro pressure on the S2R1K, I don't know about the other models.

Yeah, I only care about the S2R1K... it's what I ride... 

The stock ECU presumably does do some form of adaptation based on the O2 sensor, it is the DP ECU that eliminates this.  Even tho the stock ECU adapts, it uses a narrowband sensor so it is always trying to maintain stoich, which is not what you want if you're loooking for a nice running engine and/or max power.  For performance, you want a closed loop system with a wideband sensor.

Most cars use a narrowband sensor.  Only a few high end cars use a wideband, unless you buy one aftermarket.  Even then if the car came with a narrowband and you put a wideband on it, the wideband won't be utilized to the fullest. 

The MAP sensor, narrowband o2 sensor, air/barro sensor, and ECU are all you should need for an engine set up for performance.  Strange to me that DP would rather use preloaded maps rather than letting the ECU adapt to the situation.  I understand it's more expensive to use that sort of system,  but these are Duc's! 

I don't know, but it seems the former.  Dynojet has been trying to make a PCIII that would work with the S2R1K ECU for a couple of years, but they just can't seem to figure out how to make it work.  Last thing I heard was that they had given up.  Its in Ducati's best interest to keep it a deep dark secret, so they can sell more DP ECUs.  Mind you, my comments all pertain to the S2R1k, since that is the only model I have any experience with.

I understand DP's drive to make money and keep things secret.  We need and insider.   

[CDawg]

I understand DP's drive to make money and keep things secret.  We need and insider.   

Nemesis is working on something.  They believe they have already "cracked" 1098 and 848
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=655.msg86870#msg86870

[Snake]

I am in the same situation as you guys with the s2r 1k's.  I really prefer the look of the Arrow exhaust to the Termis.  From all the reading I have done, it seems like the general consensus is that there is no certain way to get it running correctly.  Dynojet doesn't make a PCIII for this bike yet, The DP ECU is set up for the Termi exhaust (not to mention $$$$), and I'm fairly sure you cannot "flash" the existing ECU with a new map. 

So my question is, do I really have any options here?  I know some people say you need a tune when you change the exhaust and not the airbox.  I really don't like wondering if the bike is going to run correctly.  So i guess my question is can the stock ECU be remapped?  If not, is the DP ECU my only option?

Thanks,
Glenn

[Bill in OKC]

This could be a legal issue that Ducati wants no part of.  Dynojet was fined 1 million dollars by CARB for selling their product.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31021
Remapping a stock computer could land somebody in hot water.  Selling an off road use only computer is another story.  I for one hope that none of that off-road air ever makes it way to an on-road area.

[phildo]

When the ECU crapped out on my M1000 the dealer wanted $1300 for a DP ECU.
Considering they were around half that a few months before I felt like I was getting pooched.
I refused to play the Ducati ECU game, and just went with the ultimap U59.

The map it came with was a tad lean so i purchased the mapper software and 10 minutes of tinkering later it runs great! So for the price of a DP ecu I was able to get a u59 and software so I have a fully programable ECU. If I had gone with the DP unit I would still need a pc3 to alter the map and that's another 300 scoots, and it doesn't offer as much control.

There is very little support for ultimap in the US but the product is great, really suprised there is not more of a following considering how much ducati owners like to mod things;-)
http://www.ultimap-ecu.com/

[rockaduc]

This could be a legal issue that Ducati wants no part of.  Dynojet was fined 1 million dollars by CARB for selling their product.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31021
Remapping a stock computer could land somebody in hot water.  Selling an off road use only computer is another story.  I for one hope that none of that off-road air ever makes it way to an on-road area.

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