DP ECU Question

[rawint]

Hi All,

Qick question... Is the DP ECU that comes with the Termi slip ons the same ECU that comes with the full Termi exhaust? I have slip ons currently (that came with a new DP ECU and air-box), and am planning to buy a complete (used) system without the ECU or air-box) and was wondering if it will work...

Thanks in advance!!!!

Bill

[scduc]

My dealer said that if I wanted to do the slip-on kit (now) and then buy the manifold pipe that would work fine. I assume that that means the ECU is the same. I have an 08 S2R 1K. and I know there are a lot of different diameter exhausts. The one for mine seems to be the same( ECU). I have not done any mods as of yet, Still cant decide on Termi's with DP ECU or ZARDS with PCIII and DP ECU. With the front sprocket down 1, the bike runs pretty good. I am sure that an exhaust is not far away though.

[Justang]

I bought the slip ons/ecu/air box mod first and then the mid pipe later, and my Duc dealer said the ECU doesn't need to be changed when I put the mid pipe on.

[rockaduc]

I bought the slip ons/ecu/air box mod first and then the mid pipe later, and my Duc dealer said the ECU doesn't need to be changed when I put the mid pipe on.

I have the full termi system.  I only had my guy reset the TPS.  I now need to take it back b/c it ssssttttutttttters between 3 and 4 thousand RPM.  You have to remember that the stock header diameter is only 43mm and the DP unit is 50mm.  You are now flowing much more air.  Do not be surprised if you have to tinker w/ it a bit.

[rawint]

So, I spoke with the head mechanic at Ducati Miami today, and he told me that the ECUs were NOT the same, and that there was no way to reprogram the one that I have. I'm so confused. Also, he said that it would run too lean with my current ECU, and that he really didn't recommend it. He seems to know his s#*t, but I am so green when it comes to this kind of stuff, that I have no way of knowing... I also asked him about a Power Commander, and he said that it would work, but end up costing me more than just buying the whole Termi system. Anyone have any thoughts on what he said?

Thanks again, guys!

[mxwinky]

Yeah, the mechanic you talked to is putting you on the right track.  Without help from the DP ECU or a properly mapped PCIII your bike will run too lean if you install a full system, and may be borderline with just the midpipe and slip-ons but no air filter upgrade.   Ducati has a dedicated ECU for each of their Termi systems and they really do the trick.  It is more money up front, but IMO it really saves you cash and headaches in the long run.  Remember that the PCIII really only addresses the fueling side of the equation and not the ignition mapping, which turns out to have a huge effect.  The DP ECU takes care of both and is a dedicated ECU for each particular model and exhaust system.  I just had the full Termi system and ECU done on my '08 S4RS Tricolore and the results were spectacular.  Absolutely perfect, smooth running at all rpm with a definite boost in hp everywhere.  I'm sure that if I'd tried to piece this all together bit by bit and run a PC with a custom map, the bike would have (eventually) been acceptable.  But how tired and frustrated would I be by the end of that whole process?  Time and aggravation have their value.   Plus the knowledge that it's properly mapped by Ducati gives me a bit more peace of mind.  Now it rips and I can ride instead of tinker on the dyno.

[Ivan]

Which Monster do you have?

If I'm not mistaken, for the S4R they offer two kits, one consists of slip-ons with and ECU, the other a full system with ECU.  I would assume the ECUs are different, given the huge difference in exhaust flow.

For the S2R1K, I believe that they only offer one kit, which consists of slip-ons with an ECU.  I don't think that they offer a kit based on a full system.   If you want a full system, you might need the DP ECU (for slip-ons) and a PCIII to add additional fuel.  This is what I ended up using....

[Bill in OKC]

The S4Rs has two different part numbers for the DP ecu.  One for the slip ons and one for the full system.  Both (S4Rs) exhausts come with the open air-box & K&N filter.  I think the free flowing air-box lid & K&N filter make the big difference in fuel mixture so I'm not sure what the difference between the two ecus would be. 

[tri-colore202]

this is the info i get on my bike  2008 s4rs.   i got this info from the parts manager at spectrum motorsports they seem to be very knowledgable.  yes there  is 2 different ecu's one for the full system and a slip on.   both ecu's do make the bike an "open loop" system. each ecu's have a different map loaded in there one for the full system and the slip on, hence the different part number for the ecu's.  you can use a slip on ecu when you have a full system...ONLY IF YOU head to the dyno and have them totally remap your ecu for your particuallar set up.    if anyone needs answers on this  here is spectrum motorsports in irvine CA who does remap and tune each bike on a dyno according to your bikes specific needs and setup. 

as for my bike i currently have a full termi w/ecu and airbox,  might be selling the full system,  but keeping the ecu.   once i get my exhaust i will have spectrum motorsports add a pc3 and totally remap my ecu and play with the pc3 on a dyno to get the best HP/TQ for my set up.    hope this helps any of ya out there.

spectrums number 949-951-3611 rob is the parts manager that knows his stuff.  kudos to you rob!!


van

[rawint]

Thanks for all of the info guys!!! I think that I'm just gonna sell my slip ons with the air filter and ECU, and buy a full system. Anyone know who has the best price these days? I have a 2007 S4R, BTW...

Thanks again!!!

Bill

[Justang]

Yeah, the S2R1K does not have a "full system."  It's the slip ons/ecu/airbox.  Then you can upgrade and get the midpipe.  Irvine Spectrum Ducati checked into this for me and said the ECU did not have to be changed.  So that is what I am relaying here.  I asked them very specifically if it needed to be changed. 

The o2 sensor is before the 'cat' so eliminating the cat won't effect it's reading.  The o2 sensors primary job is to control the a/f ratio.  If the o2 sensor is still intact, and the ECU allows for the adjustment, then the mid-pipe should not need a new ECU.  Heck, the slip ons shouldn't need the new ECU.  It's the airbox mod that probably needs it.

And are we really moving more air per cycle with the mid-pipe?  Or are we freeing up restrictions to allow the air to move more freely? 

Do the FI bikes have a way to monitor how much air is being pulled into the engine?  Like a mass air sensor? 

[Ivan]

Yeah, the S2R1K does not have a "full system."  It's the slip ons/ecu/airbox.  Then you can upgrade and get the midpipe.  Irvine Spectrum Ducati checked into this for me and said the ECU did not have to be changed.  So that is what I am relaying here.  I asked them very specifically if it needed to be changed. 

The o2 sensor is before the 'cat' so eliminating the cat won't effect it's reading.  The o2 sensors primary job is to control the a/f ratio.  If the o2 sensor is still intact, and the ECU allows for the adjustment, then the mid-pipe should not need a new ECU.  Heck, the slip ons shouldn't need the new ECU.  It's the airbox mod that probably needs it.

And are we really moving more air per cycle with the mid-pipe?  Or are we freeing up restrictions to allow the air to move more freely? 

Do the FI bikes have a way to monitor how much air is being pulled into the engine?  Like a mass air sensor? 

As for what Spectrum told you, take it with a HUGE grain of salt.  The same shop could not get my fueling right wtihout adding the PCIII.

The FI system does not use a mass airflow sensor like most cars.  It will not automatically adjust the fueling if you change your exhaust or your air intake such that it is freer flowing.  The range of adjustment provided by the O2 sensor is miniscule compared to what is needed once you start making modifications.  If you have a DP ECU, the O2 sensor is not  used, because the ECU runs open loop.

[Justang]

There's no feedback from the o2's with the DP ECU?  How does the computer adjust for things like altitude?  Kind of a crappy system if this is true.  You need some sort of adaption of the ECU for all the various conditions.  Is the PCIII a closed loop system?

I figured the o2's provide limited feedback in the range needed once the bike was modified.  But figured the DP ECU would adjust the ranges allowed. 

Do you have a better Duc shop than Spectrum? 

[NAKID]

The DP ECU doesn't not take readings from the O2 sensor and there are no provisions for the sensor on their full systems. Prior to 2006, all Ducati's were open loop. As far as I know, they use a MAP sensor for proper fueling to take altitude into consideration...

[Justang]

I couldn't believe it would be an open loop.  Running on an open loop system all the time would be less than beneficial.  WOT and start/warm-up would be the only times I expect the bike to be in open loop.  Once the o2's were warm enough to start switching, the bike should be back to a closed loop system. Or if the warm up is a function of time, it'll be whatever the specified time is before it goes to closed loop... or a combination of both. 

A map sensor should then adjust for the "increased" air flow into/out of the engine.  It reads more, thus injects more fuel.  Since the o2 sensor gives feedback on the a/f ratio the ECU takes that data and the MAP data and adjusts the injectors accordingly.  Increasing the diameter of the mid-pipe will allow for increased flow, the closed loop system (o2 sensor, map, ecu) should account for this at the injector. 

Now the only problem I see is if the stock ECU won't allow for enough variation of the a/f ratio.  Say the stock ECU will allow for 5% variation of the a/f ratio, but the exhaust and airbox mods push it further than the 5% allowed.  The DP ECU should allow for more of a variation, or changed the starting point of that 5% variation.  follow me?     

I'm basing all this off my knowledge of cars... specifically mustangs. 
I'm really interested in learning about the Ducati system, I'd assume it's close to the cars since the principals of fuel management are the same.

Just thinking out loud, but maybe it's a limited closed loop system.  Only operates at certain times. 
Or maybe a system with a table of correction factors are used based on the o2 feedback... which really wouldn't be a true closed loop system.
Maybe the sensors aren't fast enough to convert the data on a bike.  But I'd think with a MAP system, it would be a closed loop. 

Anybody have good quality information on the ECU of the Duc's?  Any real tech data?
I'm uber curious about this system now.