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Must read Ignitech TCIP 4, Ca-Cycleworks exact-fit coils, Spark plug info

Started by avizpls, April 26, 2011, 05:46:40 AM

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koko64

#150
August 16, 2011, 05:35:16 PM
I would absolutely like to run a non resistor type plug for 1-3 hp gain, but won't due to being concerned that it may take out my Igniteck which is an awesome little unit for what it does for the price.

If someone can tell me how to run a plug that gives a genuine hp advantage without buggering up the ignition then I would be all over it! I am running the projected tip NGK Iridiums (costly) at present they deal well with the premium fuels here with good coils (Dyna or Kelley coils). Haven't smacked them with the JE pistons yet. The D8EAs are heaps cheaper!

If Chris was able to run the non resistor plug without issue and it became an issue later then maybe there was a component change in the Igniteck that made the unit vulnerable? I'm no sparky, so anyone with knowledge on this is welcome to chime in. Is there a way to deal with the issue and keep the best spark plug for power? Is it ignition cables, plug caps, some added component? Tiz, you seem to know about this stuff.

I mean, ten bucks in plugs, that's cheap horsepower!
2015 Scrambler 800

ducatiz

#151
August 16, 2011, 07:09:22 PM
Before they made resistor plugs, you had to use resistor caps when the bike required it.  The issue is shielding and the wires on the bike act as a huge antenna for any radio noise generated by the plug.  It doesn't matter where on the circuit you put the resistor - i.e. inside the plug, in the cap, in the wires -- any resistor is going to cut some voltage. See Ohm's Law -- voltage is inversely proportional to the amount of resistance. 

Now this is based on the knowledge that the spark creates a noise burst when it fires, and so designers have tried to keep it simple and put the resistor nearest the plug (cap or wire) and now have figured out how to put it inside the plug. 

It might be possible to put a resistor inline for each wire going to an ecu or the ignitech.  it might only be necessary to put one on the power lead.  this might protect the circuits if that's the problem.  likewise, if the input voltage is nonvariable, you could put a voltage regulator inline which would prevent spikes (by dissipating them as heat)...  i used a VR for an LED tail light that I built for my Pantah -- to keep the charging system from burning out the LED arrays -- keep the input voltage at 12vdc and the resistors can be finely tailored to what voltage feeding them.

Anyhow, I don't think there is an easy solution.  But it might be as simple a using a ferrite core on the wires.  That would be easy enough to try.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Langanobob

#152
August 17, 2011, 03:32:30 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on August 16, 2011, 07:09:22 PM
Before they made resistor plugs, you had to use resistor caps when the bike required it.  The issue is shielding and the wires on the bike act as a huge antenna for any radio noise generated by the plug.  It doesn't matter where on the circuit you put the resistor - i.e. inside the plug, in the cap, in the wires -- any resistor is going to cut some voltage. See Ohm's Law -- voltage is inversely proportional to the amount of resistance...

I don't completely understand the effect of resistance on spark voltage.  If you increase the plug gap, effectively increasing the resistance, the plug will not spark until the voltage builds up enough for the spark to jump the greater gap.  So, in this case, voltage is directly proportional to resistance, not inversely proportional.

If you add an inline resistance, the spark will still not jump the plug gap until the  voltage builds up to the same point that it took to jump the gap prior to adding the resistance.  It seems to me that the plug gap is what controls the spark voltage, not inline resistance.   So, what am I missing here?

avizpls

#153
August 17, 2011, 06:07:08 AM
DR8EA plugs with the Red coils and 0ohm wires seem to be a good match. Im still not running the projected tips, but I might switch next year (i have a case of the dr8ea.

#11

turbodude

#154
August 17, 2011, 11:21:44 AM
Just got around to installing my ignitech from way back when Norm did the first group buy.   Working well so far (500 miles).  Hoping it continues to work well.

ducatiz

#155
August 17, 2011, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: turbodude on August 17, 2011, 11:21:44 AM
Just got around to installing my ignitech from way back when Norm did the first group buy.   Working well so far (500 miles).  Hoping it continues to work well.

what bike and what's your configuration?  did you tweak the programming any?
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

turbodude

#156
August 19, 2011, 04:58:10 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on August 17, 2011, 12:05:19 PM
what bike and what's your configuration?  did you tweak the programming any?

944 with split 41 fcr's and dynacoils.  Have the pick ups retarded as BCM used to do to deal with the compression.  I did mess with the preset map a little to compensate for the delay mentioned earliers as I have an old style ignitech. 

I plan on moving the pick ups at my next oil change so  I can get more timing.

ducatiz

#157
August 19, 2011, 05:33:03 AM
Quote from: turbodude on August 19, 2011, 04:58:10 AM
944 with split 41 fcr's and dynacoils.  Have the pick ups retarded as BCM used to do to deal with the compression.  I did mess with the preset map a little to compensate for the delay mentioned earliers as I have an old style ignitech. 

I plan on moving the pick ups at my next oil change so  I can get more timing.

If you have the Ignitech, you don't need to move the pickups, you program it.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

turbodude

#158
August 19, 2011, 09:57:04 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on August 19, 2011, 05:33:03 AM
If you have the Ignitech, you don't need to move the pickups, you program it.

Yes, but my pick ups are retarded 6 degrees so by 9,000 rpm I am believe I can't even get to 30 degrees with the delay.  (No I haven't had a chance to check it with a timing light.  Don't want to hold it at high rpm in the driveway with a timing light and get the neighbors wound up).

ducatiz

#159
August 19, 2011, 10:03:56 AM
Quote from: turbodude on August 19, 2011, 09:57:04 AM
Yes, but my pick ups are retarded 6 degrees so by 9,000 rpm I am believe I can't even get to 30 degrees with the delay.  (No I haven't had a chance to check it with a timing light.  Don't want to hold it at high rpm in the driveway with a timing light and get the neighbors wound up).



[evil]

I'd say that's a good Sunday morning activity, why not?
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

turbodude

#160
August 19, 2011, 10:31:28 AM
stop by on Sunday.  You can hold the throttle, I'll hold the timing light.   [bacon]

ducatiz

#161
August 19, 2011, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: turbodude on August 19, 2011, 10:31:28 AM
stop by on Sunday.  You can hold the throttle, I'll hold the timing light.   [bacon]

where are you?  I got no problem if we do it at your place.. LOL
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Langanobob

#162
August 22, 2011, 04:12:42 AM
Here's an explanation of ignition system resistance.   Don't know for sure if the guy knows what he's talking about but it made sense to me.

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/plugwiretech.html

sevenfifty

#163
November 30, 2011, 02:35:38 PM

I'm very happy to have found this thread.

I've been building my new track bike over the past six months.

It has TCIP4 with Ca-Cycleworks red coils, I'm running D8EA sparks.

Took it out for the first time last weekend, very exiting, it was running sweet, I was smiling.
10 laps later it started to cut out, running rough, and that was the end if the first test.

I couldn't figure out what was wrong, I connected the TCIP4 to the laptop, it was showing error codes.
Then I found this thread.

So it looks like I fried the Ignitech unit by using the OEM spark plugs?

cheers


avizpls

#164
November 30, 2011, 07:10:02 PM
Very much likely, my friend.  [thumbsdown] but at least you won't have to chase the problem too long. I've been running the red coils for quite some time now with R type plugs and no issues for the ignitech.

Oh to make sure it's the same failure mode, check and see that it's the ch1 cylinder that's not running.
#11
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