S2R 1000 surging - advice on which solution to use.

[Episteme]

Last year I picked up a used 2007 S2R 1000 with the ECU, Termi and air filter upgrade. It ran very smoothly until I replaced the utter with mid-pipes. Since then, I get progressive surging, over-revving (3000 rpm) and stalling at idol. It’s gotten so bad that I don't feel safe riding it.

I no longer have a Ducati mechanic anywhere near where I live, so it’s entirely in my (in)capable hands.

I understand that this is a well documented issue having something to do with the O2 sensor.  I also understand that my options are either to send my ECU to Anthony at Desmoworks for a reflash ($250), or buy a Nemisis ECU from SilverBack ($950.00). Clearly, the reflash option is WAY more enticing given the price. But, will it fix my problems?

http://www.ducatiperformance.com/ducati-ecu-reflash-p-150097.html

http://www.silverbackperformance.net/nemesis.html

Presuming that the reflash is the solution to all my problems (please, chime in here if you can provide some reassurance - or alternate direction), then I’m also presuming that this would be the time to ditch the air box and go with pod filters so that I don’t have to do a second reflash later on?

As always, your wisdom and experience are greatly appreciated.

Epi

[ducatiz]

disconnect the 02 sensor

[Episteme]

If the O2 sensor is the part that attaches to the exhaust system... it was removed before I bought it, presumably when the ECU/Termi kit was installed. If it's something else, I'd love to know where it is!  Would be great if it were simple and cheep!

[ducatiz]

i was under the impression the Lambda was teh problem.. oh well!

[puppy]

 www.desmoporsche.com - flashed mine and now it runs great and adjusting the tps

[Slide Panda]

Fat Duc o2 sensor manipulator

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/fat-duc-o2-sensor-manipulator/

[booger]

If I'm not mistaken, the OP said he had the Termi kit. So the FatDuc, which is a bandaid anyway, won't do any good. Termi kit/DP ECU for the 1k gets rid of the closed loop system, and is the only way to get a 1k to run properly.

I would ask the original poster to confirm and make absolutely sure that he is not in fact running the stock ECU with the closed loop fueling setup. Also confirm the throttle bodies and TPS aren't horribly out of whack.

[Episteme]

Berg...

Yes, according to the folks at Atlantic Motoplex, where I bought the bike, it has the Termi kit. I have no reason not to believe them, nonetheless - how can I verify that it has the DP ECU? I'm presuming that it would be written on the ECU somewhere?

As for the throttle bodies, I found this thread

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=40308.0

I will try and digest it all over the weekend. Any other sources of information would be greatly appreciated.

My understanding of TPS is that it can only be adjusted by way of a new map being flashed to the ECU. Correct?

Also, am I assuming correctly from your response that the addition of the mid-pipes should not be causing these problems? ie - the removal of the CC from the system should not alter air flow to the point of needing a new map on the DP ECU - also, that since it is a closed loop, the usual causes (O2) don't apply?

[puppy]

Hi if your bike ran good with the utter on it is not a dp ecu. I tried my reflashed ecu on my bike with the utter ran like shit then put my pipes on and it started to come around like it should .stoped by the ducati shop and they adjusted the tps for $55

[Episteme]

"Hi if your bike ran good with the utter on it is not a dp ecu"

Is it possible that it does have the DP ECU, but the TPS was set for the air restricitons inherent to the utter? Would that cause the current list of problems at idol? The reason I ask this is that the lack of an O2 sensor seems to indicate that it does have a closed loop - which implies the DP ECU.  If I understand your responces correctly, regardless if the ECU is stock or DP - the TPS should be adjusted. At least I hope this is the case, since this is the only course of action I can reasonably take at this time.

From what I can tell, the throttle body is fine - but I really have nothing to compare it to - so its just a reasonable guess based on very limited knowledge and experience. If the throttle body were out of whack - would that not effect the entire range? Because its only at the 'zero' position that things get wonky.

[vaclav]

The presence of an O2 sensor closes the loop, not the lack of one.

[booger]

The cheapest solution to your problem is to put the stock collector midpipe back on it and ride it. It might be ugly but that's better than the bike running poorly.

You really need to figure out what it is that you are dealing with. Like finding out definitively if you have a Termi kit or not. That would help. Don't assume you do because the dealer told you so.

Revisit your midpipe installation and look for signs of exhaust leaks. Post photos of your exhaust setup, airbox, ECU, etc.

Throttle bodies must be checked out for sync. Homemade manometers are cheap to assemble and do the job admirably.

If the TPS needs a reset you're up shit creek and have to go to a dealer or else you can buy a VDST and do it yourself.

More money and time is required to fix your problems regardless. This is why I recommend you stick the stock collector back on and enjoy(don't forget the gaskets). If it ain't broke don't break it. I understand the udder is killerbomb ugly but it worked before you messed with it. Maybe if you painted it black you could deal with the look.

If you wish to continue and spend more money to make it right, people are here to help. But we need pics.

[Episteme]

True - fitting the udder back is the final solution - but, I'd rather not give up just yet.

I've pretty much confirmed that it is the 'full meal deal' upgrade. Termi slip-ons, open air box and an ECU with sn 96517406B.

I used liquid gasket to seal the exhaust joints  when I installed the mid-pipe last year. So far, no signs of leakage.

Here are the photos - sorry for the 'iphone quality'.

[booger]

Fair enough, so you do have the kit, along with a nice solo seat.    Now the question is whether the slipon kit does away with the O2 sensor or not. I believe that for the 1k the full system omits it. The udder is replaced by a straight midpipe and the ECU is not programmed to provide for it. I'm just not sure the slipon kit is the same. Full systems are supposed to be for race only(track), slipon kits are for street and they use the stock udder. What may have happened in your case is you made your slipon kit into a race kit without notifying your ECU.
 
Now build a manometer(instructions are everywhere) and check the throttle body sync. Screw both air bleeds in all the way, hook up your manometer, rev bike to 3k or so @ operating temp, adjust the throttle butterfly screw if needed to balance the fluid levels. Remove manometer and plug the sync ports. Unscrew the air bleeds 3 turns. Then unscrew evenly until idle is a steady 1200. I once messed my TB sync up and the idle drifted up and down in an erratic manner which is why I am telling you to check it. Doesn't cost much at all to do this.

Of course do clean/check all electrical connections, and take a look at the plugs to make sure everything is good in that regard. Checking is cheap.

Next step which will require a bigger monetary investment is to take the bike to a dealer to reset TPS or buy a VDST and do it yourself. If you were to reprogram the ECU to full race spec(if there is even a difference from slipon spec) you will still need to reset the TPS upon installation.

What you need to do is send a personal message to Speeddog or brad black and and ask one of them to comment.

[Episteme]

I'm not sure if the slip-on kit removes the O2 either - but mine definitely does not have an O2 sensor - so I'm going with 'yes' on that one.

I found a video of someone doing the sync on a FZ6, and think I get the idea. What I need to know is the exact location of the sync ports, butterfly screws and air bleeds for each of the two valves (picture w/ arrows anyone?).

Electrical connections are all good - I cleaned and greased with dialectic during my annual spring cleaning.



As for the solo seat - thanks... bought it used and spent months refurbishing it (like everything else on my bike). Working on fixing up a cf tank right now.