S2R 1000 surging - advice on which solution to use.

[ducatiz]

the Lambda (o2) sensor is not on the slip on section, it is on the "udder" section of the exhaust.  IF the udder is gone, then the lambda is gone.

[Episteme]

Yes, the O2 bung... There was no O2 sensor attached to the bung on the catalytic converter (utter) when I replaced it with straight mid-pipes. The straight mid-pipes which are on the bike currently also has an O2 bung, but it's currently occupied with a brass plug.


UPDATE:

I've ordered velocity stacks and K&N pod filters as well as a re-flashed ECU to reflect the changes in my bike. I'm in this far, I may as well go all the way.

The course of action I plan to take is 1) figuring out how to sync my throttle body, and 2) finding a cheap source for the VDSP to reset my TPS. LT has one on his site.

I will be doing this in two phases - I'll sync the throttle bodies and reset TPS while i wait for the new parts to come in. I'll repeat the process once I install the new parts, and hopefully by then I'll know what I'm doing.

There is currently no how-to on the board with respect to either process - I've got a crappy camera, but would be willing to write it up on the second round - based on my searches on the forum, there seems to be an appetite for it.

[booger]

You didn't need to do that. You could have made your setup work well without spending money needlessly. You may find the pod filters do not give you the performance gain you think they will. You already have a Termi kit. Your bike needs tuning, not more parts.

[corvtt1969]

put baffles in the mid pipe to simulate the restrictiveness of the udder? just a thought

[brad black]

as far as i knew there was only one dp map for the s2r1000, the one supplied with the muffler kits.  there wasn't a "full system" ecu offered.  so i expect what you're getting with the reflashed ecu is what you already have.

did the bike run badly as soon as you put the header pipe on, or did it slowly get bad?

[Episteme]

"so i expect what you're getting with the reflashed ecu is what you already have."

crap. BUT, they're also getting rid of the immobilizer and such - which is worth the cost in my opinion.. that immobilizer antenna was the bane of my existence on my last Duc. But that's another story.

"did the bike run badly as soon as you put the header pipe on, or did it slowly get bad"

Progressively and intermittently.  Just pulled the spark plugs out (should have done this first - live and learn) and they were black, dry and 'fluffy' looking - so, running rich?  I know that a dirty filter can cause this - but the filter doesn't look especially dirty. No matter, new filters were ordered, and should be en route by now (I hope).

New plugs did help somewhat, but I've read that an engine running rich can do damage - so I've put her away for now.

Ignorance is NOT cheap.

[Episteme]

OK, I’m ready to attempt a throttle body sync – but I still have some questions, and would like to make sure that I’m not missing any critical concepts here. Your input would be greatly appreciated. I’ll turn it into a how-to with pictures if it ends up being successful.

I understand that the concept is to ensure that each side of the throttle body is demonstrating equal vacuum pressure. I don’t have a VDST, or a CO2 gas analyzer. How critical are these tools to the process?

Symptoms of the throttle bodies being out of sync include surging (400RPM/2000RPM), stalling and revving (3000RPM) at idle; and, the engine may vibrate with throttle.


I understand this to be the general process:

1. Build a manometer.

• I built mine with 10 feet of 3/16" inside diameter (ID) tubing and a bit of oil, and I used a wooden yardstick to hold the tubing in place and made a hook to hang it from the handle bars.
• Google video search for “manometer throttle” was very useful in this regard.
  

2. Get the engine up to operating temperature.

• CAUTION: Wear a thick long sleeve shirt and mechanics gloves so as not to burn the crap out of myself.

3. Locate the two vacuum sync ports on the throttle body, and connect the manometer.

• connect one end to the manometer tubing to the vacuum sync port on the horizontal throttle, and the other end of the tubing to the vertical.
• I figured out that these are the ports that connected the throttle bodies to my emission canister with a “T” line – they are very close to the cylinder head near the black rubber part that connects the throttle body. Correct?
• Thankfully, when I replaced the nipple bolts on the throttle body with machine screws I kept the nipple bolts! YEAH ME!!.
  
• Unfortunately, it's Friday the 13th of may... and I sheared off the top of the nipple bolt. Be gentle putting that thing in - now i need to find a really tiny extractor and a new nipple bolt. 

4. Locate and gently tighten the 2 air bleed screws all the way in.

• Still working on that part – can’t seem to identify them… where should I be looking, specifically?

5. Bring the bike to 3000 rpm and check manometer.

• Although I haven't tried it - I'm thinking that because I don't have 6 hands, I can tighten the throttle cable until it runs steady at 3000, then re-set it once I'm done. Holding the throttle steady while reading the manometer while adjusting the screws seems a little more than I can manage personally.

6. Adjust the throttle butterfly screw to balance fluid levels in manometer.

• Butterfly screw… this is the screw with yellow paint on it directly behind the radiator… right? If this is the case, then removing the radiator from its mounting seems necessary to get access.

7. Blip the throttle gently after adjusting the butterfly screw and check manometer. Repeat until balanced.

• CAUTION: Apparently, too fast a drop in throttle may result in the engine aspirating the fluid in my manometer… GENTLY!

7. Remove manometer and plug the sync ports.

8. Unscrew the bleed ports three turns

• Three turns... like three full rotations, 1080 degrees? I’ve read elsewhere that it is best to turn the air bleed screws in unison until the idle reached the idle set-point in the ECU (1200 RPM). Is this correct?

Again, thanks for all your help.

[nowuries]

Hey Episteme, et al:
           I am wondering if you went through with the throttle body sync, and if so, could you please update your procedure and describe some of the locations of ports/screws/etc.  I have to do the same, but have yet to find a comprehensive procedure.  BTW, I am waiting for the pieces for my homemade manometer to get here, so I have a day or so...  If you could assist, I would greatly appreciate it, especially with pics!!

            BTW, I have an '06 S2R 1000 with a marving midpipe, cored exhaust cans (did that myself), reflashed ECU to match the termi system, and now I have rough idle (400-2000rpm), stalling when I pull in the clutch/idle, and a sort of misfire/dive on some accelerations from stop... every time I take my bike in, I get it back with worse performance, so it is time to take matters into my own hands.

          Thanks for your assistance!

[WetDuc]

I'm definitely interested in this thread, too! 
Resetting TPS is something that is good to do and VDSTS may be the best way to go.  I added a midpipe to my s2r1000 and it had the slipon kit, but i found out the map is the same for both full and slipon kit.  My midpipe didn't change much of anything about how the bike ran except the exhaust noise increase and the intake honk decrease.
My bike hunts idle between 400-2000rpm, used to be able to stop it hunting with throttle blip, but no luck lately.   A couple restarts usually fixes it and it only hunts right after startup if its going to do it.  I'll also be balancing the throttle bodies my bike soon.

[nowuries]

Well, I finally got all the right tools, (thanks especially to Morgan Carbtune--www.carbtune.com) and completed a throttle body synch twice.  I definitely would advise against making your own manometer--I did for the first synch, but it was a MUCH bigger hassle than the money you save... I was always concerned with the fluid entering the intakes, it was very touchy (and I was using ATF; water would be worse), and although it worked, it was a painful process.  I bit the bullet and got the Morgan Carbtune and oh, happy days!! Super easy to operate, the metal slugs mean you aren't worried about anything going in the intake, easy to read, and it comes with so many adapters, I can use it on my other motorcycle (Honda) and cars.    I also went and bought the Technoresearch VDSTS software so I could reset the TPS, rather than dealing with the free one on the French website--just not worth the hassle.  It also came in handy when I needed to make the fuel mix a bit more rich (too much popping when I closed the throttle).  Anyway, I will follow up with a video soon, but I was successful--she runs really nice now, consistent idle, and no popping on decelleration!! Time for a beer!

[WetDuc]

Just out of curiousity, what did you settle on as your trimmer value?  Also, about where did you set your air bleeds?   
I have my S2R1k at trim=16 with both airbleeds about 1/4 out from fully closed after the TB sync I did .   It runs pretty well like that and I have almost the exact same fueling mods you do (open airbox, midpipe, DPECU).