Poorly running s4r 07'

[TAftonomos]

Having some issues with my s4rt project, namely starting the thing

After I reran the fuel lines, I noticed that basically the injectors have the fuel lines running through them, then back to the tank.

Does anyone know for certain if it matters which one is fed first?  There wasn't a FPR that I could see, and if it's just a closed loop system where the FPR is inside the tank, the pump just maintains the pressure in the loop.....I can't see why it would matter which line goes where.

I'm asking as I've got a no-start condition on my bike, and I'm not really sure where to start.  I've double checked all plugs, I have spark, etc...

[ducpainter]

Having some issues with my s4rt project, namely starting the thing

After I reran the fuel lines, I noticed that basically the injectors have the fuel lines running through them, then back to the tank.

Does anyone know for certain if it matters which one is fed first?  There wasn't a FPR that I could see, and if it's just a closed loop system where the FPR is inside the tank, the pump just maintains the pressure in the loop.....I can't see why it would matter which line goes where.

I'm asking as I've got a no-start condition on my bike, and I'm not really sure where to start.  I've double checked all plugs, I have spark, etc...

The pressure regulator is mounted in the tank on the plastic tanked bikes.

I can't imagine why it would matter which way the fuel flowed either, but I'd try it the other way for S&G's

edit...

re-thinking this...I don't think it's a closed loop. Switch the lines on the pump flange and try it.

[Drunken Monkey]

Reversing these (admittedly on a bike with the external regulator) will result in the bike not working.

Not sure why this is the case but I speak from first hand experience   

[TAftonomos]

Either it doesn't matter, or they were correct.

It fired up, idled like sheot, and died.

Backfires like a mo-fo.  Admittedly, I may have filled it with a gallon of old gas.  So I rode it down spitting and sputtering to the station, and put in 2.2 gallons of 93 octane.

When I arrived home, it seemed a smidgen better, and def idled much better....right up until it shut it self off.  Now it refuses to fire up, not even trying to light off.  Temp got up to around 185-187 irrc.  Station is maybe 2 miles away.  No problem refiring at the station when I filled it up.

Might be the speedcell giving me fits.  Bike seems like it cranks over plenty fast enough.  Unfortunatly, I've used the space in the battery compartment for other items, so putting a new stock battery back in isnt really possible.  It's on the quick charger now, I'll see if it fires up after a bit of charge.  I'm assuming if it does it's time to pony up for another battery, and maybe re-think using the battery compartment for other items/go back to a stock battery.

Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated!  


edit - when I rode it there/back, the RPM's were kept below 4k, as it was running like dogshit.  IIRC, the charging system doesn't do much/anything below about 4500, so perhaps I just used up the rest of the juice in the speedcell when I fired it back up and came home. 

[TAftonomos]

Just pushed it 2 miles home.  Didn't realize I had my headlight turned off.  Switched it on, and it started running REALLY shitty.  Too late to switch it off, bike died.  It swings over, but won't restart.

I try a dozen times on the way home, to no avail.

It's the second "speedcell" battery I've had, and the second time it's done exactly this.  Last time the vendor fixed the issue after Josh at Speedcell cut off conversation.  I'm not even going to bother with it now, it's time to find a different battery.

[scduc]

It doesn't sound like its the battery. Is it possible that some dirt got into an injector? I do know that on the fuel tank housing, there is an "in" and an "out". I just refit my tank and it was a concern of mine. I looked closely at the service manual and it showed one of the lines with a white band matching my bike. I followed it to the proper side of the housing.

[TAftonomos]

Anything is possible, but I doubt it.

Lines have been replaced, but looking at the fueling system I don't see why there would be a difference.....the FPR is in the tank, it regulates the pressure.  The pump just supplies the fuel in the "rail/lines", and the injector feeds.  My lines have been long since replaced/rerouted, so the band is gone.  I can try switching them, but it's not quite as simple and just pulling them off.

In any case, I'm pretty sure it is the battery.  It won't hold a charge for any length of time, which is typically what happens to lipo's I have in RC airplanes. 

[scduc]

The battery should not make it run like shit, I had a bad regulator on my 00' 750 and did not even know the battery was dieing. it ran fine until it just cut off. Then I was unable to get it started at all. I'd say that if the engine is not running smoothly, then the generator is not getting the proper juice making the battery strain. I do agree with the lipo's though. They tend to develop a memory. In all of my RC days and now with battery tools, they work a lot better when they get completely discharged and then recharged. Maybe the constant charging in bike applications causes them to fail prematurely.

[TAftonomos]

I've going to put a OE battery in tomorrow, reroute all the electronics I had in the battery box, and give it another whirl.

I'm just hoping it was the old/bad? gas mixed with the battery not letting it start reliably. 

[Speeddog]

The FI bikes will run crappy or not at all if the voltage gets too low, the ECU just does not operate correctly.
I've had an M1k with a bad ground at the cases, when cranking the voltage at the ECU would go low and it would randomly get spark.
It was a big-bore hi-comp, so not all that impressive starting when all was up to snuff.

The steel tank FI Monsters have the regulator at the throttle bodies, so incorrect connection at the tank will be a non-running configuration.
Plastic tank FI Monsters have the regulator in the tank, so incorrect connection makes no difference.

Check to make sure you haven't swapped the connectors at the injectors, it will run that way, but poorly, as the squirt timing is off.

[danaid]

 My 696 ran rough, It showed signs of bad fuel( had to fill up at a run-down, gas station) and also signs of a bad battery, and left me stranded at my gym, started the next day after a battery charge. A week later, it shut off while riding down the road.
 A couple of weeks later the voltage regulator/rectifier went out. problem solved.

[TAftonomos]

Thanks guys for the replies.

I left the injectors plugged in as they were, so that should be fine.

I found the breather hose to not be connected to the airbox (from the stepper motor).   Should make no difference (other than unfiltered air) but it's plugged in now.

I put a OE battery in it this AM.  Unfortunately I can't go for a ride, as the tank won't shut until I move some things around.  I did let it warm up...quite poppy and misfiring at first, but it's getting much better.....pretty convinced that 1 gallon of gas I put in it wasn't as "fresh" as I thought it was.  Revved it a few times, then let it run for a bit, then again.  Ended up much cleaner after about 5 mins of doing this.

Now I need to spend the afternoon re-relocating the electronics to the tail, so I can go drive the thing.  Some loose ends to figure out (why do I have oil residue trying to seep out of my horizontal exhaust header/head flange (bad valve guide, or just from sitting for a long time?) and clean everything up and it should be good to go.

The speedcell sat on the shelf last night, after getting a 30min charge @ 5amps.  1am it had 13.5V on it.  9am it had 10.2V.... that was an expensive 3 rides right there!


One more thing I noted.  It starts nearly immediately with my hand on the throttle.  I wouldn't expect it with the stepper motor letting in air, but I guess the TB's need to have a slight open condition for it to fire?  Perhaps I should adjust my throttle cable a smidge?

[Bill in OKC]

When I re-routed my fuel lines away from the timing belts, they were swapped so the fuel flows "backwards?"  but the bike runs as well as when the fuel flowed ?forwards?  lol

Maybe check the TPS connector
Maybe check the reed valve in the breather
Good luck
Bill

[ducpainter]

I wouldn't use the throttle cable to hold the throttle plates open.

[TAftonomos]

I need a damn OEM manual on this thing.  It takes a decent amount of cranking to get it to fire up, and I remember it doing this awhile ago as well.  Mentioned it to the dealer when they swapped out my tank.

It seems to start easier if I basically touch the throttle.  I'm talking nearly nothing worth of throttle given.

Now that the bike has run a bit more, it's much MUCH cleaner now.  Hopefully when the new battery gets here next week I can give a ride report and start enjoying the thing