How hard? M1100 motor into 696

[DoWorkSon]

Just gauging opinions and how hard this would be...

I know people will say "why not just buy an 1100", but right now as it stands, my 696 is very modded and I have far too much time, money, and blood sweat and tears into it to justify selling it... The reason I got the 696 over 1100 was that the 1100 was not out yet when I got the 696.... So, I am already looking forward to a winter mod.

I have been throwing the idea around of a SSS conversion, however, this is merely an aesthetic look and would be pretty pricey for everything(sss, additionaly parts, tire, wheel, etc)....

However, an 1100 engine swapped in place of the 696 seems pretty straightforward and I think I would be happier with the end product...  Other than an 1100 ECU, what else would it require that would not swap over from the 696? New coils for the dual spark? Will the 1100 motor work on a double sided swingarm?

Any ideas? Opinions?

[Raux]

I think motor, ecu, coils, exhaust, possibly airbox but i would check part numbers to be sure.

I also think it would be a straight working fit for the swingarm as well.

would be cool for the 1100 with a DSS

oh and your insurance stays the same since the VIN is a 696.


personally... for the money for an 1100 motor, it would be more fun to see how far the 696 can be bumped up in HP.
imagine large bore short stroke, port and polish, HC pistons lightweight internals everywhere.
maybe a dry clutch conversion

but that's just me... i like the smaller motor idea with as much HP as possible with as little weight as possible.

[DoWorkSon]

I think a modded 696 engine would be sweet, that was my original plan, and I was watching your posts on the subject with eagerness to see what you came up with.... But man, that would be a lot of work, research, and something that would take a lot longer and probably more money than an 1100 swap... Especially if you can find an 1100 engine that's coming off a wrecked bike.

Is it confirmed that the 696 ECU will not work on the 1100, even with a reflash?

[bikepilot]

Sounds very interesting!  I think it would be difficult to get a lot more power from the 696.  I've been told (but haven't verified) that the 696 cylinders do not have much room for a larger bore, though there's room for more stroke (essentially making it like the 796 motor).  I'm sure there's power to be had with really high compression and bigger cams - always is, but its not going to be the same sort of thrust as you'd get from the 1100 I'd think.  Retaining 696 insurance and taxes has a certain appeal too.

I don't know about the ECU, but its easy enough to swap that I don't see any harm in giving it a shot then if it doesn't work well swap out for an 1100 ECU.  I'm sure you'll need to add a lot more fuel, otherwise the 696 ECU might just spice up the 1100 with a higher rev limit and likely more advance (plugging ECU's from smaller CC bikes for a bit of extra go isn't unheard of - desert racers put XR400 ECUs on XR650Rs with frequency for extra rpm and advance - those are both carburated though so all the ECU is doing is controlling spark).

If you wanted to get crazy you could find some ~50mm TBs to bolt to the 1100 motor then custom-program a mega-squirt system to run it.  A blurb in this month's MCN suggested that the 1100 is rather limited by its 45mm TBs. 

Have fun, sounds like a great project whichever direction you go 

[2-Skinny]

If you wanted to get crazy you could find some ~50mm TBs to bolt to the 1100 motor then custom-program a mega-squirt system to run it.  A blurb in this month's MCN suggested that the 1100 is rather limited by its 45mm TBs. 

I've often thought about Megasquirt possibilities...

ECU is same externally, but slightly different part numbers- my guess is the maps are different.  Running a powercommander and with a reflash my guess would be you can run 696  injection on 1100 motor... 

*CONFIRMED- injectors are same PN which means mapping is all that is different, and remapped/PC 696 ecu would likely work fine...

[ungeheuer]

ECU is same externally, but slightly different part numbers- my guess is the maps are different.  Running a powercommander and with a reflash my guess would be you can run 696  injection on 1100 motor...  

*CONFIRMED- injectors are same PN which means mapping is all that is different, and remapped/PC 696 ecu would likely work fine...

Maps are different, thats a given.  But are you sure that M696 ECU has the exact same pinouts as M1100 ECU??  

....I don't know about the ECU, but its easy enough to swap that I don't see any harm in giving it a shot then if it doesn't work well swap out for an 1100 ECU....

I could see plenty of harm in fitting an incompatible ECU to your machine.  Although I am not saying that M696 ECU's hardware is different to M1100, maybe an M696 ECU can be reflashed as M1100, point is that we just dont know for sure..... What I am saying is that I wouldnt just go ahead and "give it a shot".... More homework needed first IMO.

I'm sure you'll need to add a lot more fuel, otherwise the 696 ECU might just spice up the 1100 with a higher rev limit....

Its been said before: Not much to be gained - other than noise - by running dualspark beyond 10K rpm.  

I think motor, ecu, coils, exhaust, possibly airbox but i would check part numbers to be sure.

I also think it would be a straight working fit for the swingarm as well.

would be cool for the 1100 with a DSS

personally... for the money for an 1100 motor, it would be more fun to see how far the 696 can be bumped up in HP.
imagine large bore short stroke, port and polish, HC pistons lightweight internals everywhere.
maybe a dry clutch conversion

but that's just me... i like the smaller motor idea with as much HP as possible with as little weight as possible.

+1. I'm mostly with Raux on this one (although I do see the fun in swapping in an M1100 motor too  ).

oh and your insurance stays the same since the VIN is a 696.

Are you sure?  That certainly would not be the case over at my part of the planet.  My insurance company asks questions like "has the engine been modified.. blah... blah.. blah".... And of course they only ask so that they can walk away from a payout if you "forgot" to mention it.  That said, I dont live in the USA, so YMMV.

[bikepilot]

All my insurers care about (state farm, VA) is the VIN.  They've never asked about engines etc, though coverage for accessories/mods is available as an ad-on.

[ungeheuer]

All my insurers care about (state farm, VA) is the VIN.  They've never asked about engines etc, though coverage for accessories/mods is available as an ad-on.

So in theory you could squeeze a V8 Chev motor into your Grandma's Honda Civic and the insurance company would still pay out when she rolled it?   Nice  .

[2-Skinny]

So in theory you could squeeze a V8 Chev motor into your Grandma's Honda Civic and the insurance company would still pay out when she rolled it?   Nice  .

Well that's the far other end of the spectrum.

There would be no way for the average insurance adjuster to know the engine displacement from the outside.  Yeah it may be stamped on cases somewhere, but they aren't going to be looking for that.  Have it welded in and ground down if you are worried...

[bikepilot]

If you are really worried about it pay attention on the policy application - I'm pretty sure the one I filled out had no questions about mods/engines (for bikes or cages) and then check to make sure there isn't any policy language to exclude coverage for modded bikes (don't remember anything like this on my policy, but its been a good while since I looked at it). Insurance policies are surprisingly easy to read.

[the_Journeyman]

I will say that along with the VIN, Nationwide asks the person specifically "What CC is the motor?"  If you slip and give something other than what is supposed to be there, you might be paying a higher premium.   GEICO didn't ask any questions, just wanted the VIN.

JM

[thought]

iirc, progressive asks if there have been any major mods done to the bike when you sign up online.

[hnracing]

Go for it!
As mentioned before.
- Engine
- Dual spark ignition coils
- Headers
- Reflashed ECU or a 1100 ECU.
will be needed.
I would NOT recommend to use the stock M696 ECU with just Power Commander for the fuel.
The DS need revised sparkmap.
If you need help with the ECU send a PM.

I run a M600 -96 with a 1000DS engine and modified 15M ECU.
The insurance is cheap for a M600 and the MOT guy thought the bike was quick being a 600 

[Raux]

just hope your inspector isn't an honest, by the book, Ducati lover.

[thought]

I think any Ducati lover would see the swap, wink, and then mark down the smaller cc engine.  Haha