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How hard? M1100 motor into 696
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Topic: How hard? M1100 motor into 696 (Read 19430 times)
2-Skinny
Head Mechanic, Technical and Research Consultant
Sr. Member
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Posts: 288
Measure Twice, Cut Thrice...at least...
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #30 on:
July 11, 2011, 06:16:36 AM »
Quote from: hnracing on July 11, 2011, 06:11:12 AM
Without major work, the following engines do have the correct swingarm bearing in the casing.
2V
1000 Monster & SS & Sport Classic
1100 Monster
3V
ST3
4V
916 Monster S4 & ST4
996 Monster S4R & ST4S
998 Monster S4RS
What about frame mounting points....are those standard?
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I don't own a Ducati...but I wrench on one.
thought
Everyone needs a
Hero Member
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Posts: 2366
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #31 on:
July 11, 2011, 07:10:51 AM »
a 4v new monster would be pretty awesome... prob a lot more work, but def the kind of project that would make the idea of changing engines instead of bikes a lot more interesting.
i know someone did it already, and i think they did it with the old testastretta. i remember seeing a thread on this board for it..
here it is:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=11215.0
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'10 SFS 1098
'11 M796 ABS - Sold
'05 SV650N - Sold
hnracing
New Member
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Posts: 38
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #32 on:
July 12, 2011, 12:49:15 PM »
Quote from: 2-Skinny on July 11, 2011, 06:16:36 AM
What about frame mounting points....are those standard?
Yes!
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tiger_one
Jr. Member
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Posts: 66
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #33 on:
July 24, 2011, 09:43:16 AM »
I have a legitimate as any reason for stuffing a 1100 into the 696! My wife loves her modified lower 696 and the taller 796/1100 is not an option. So, I am all ears to what you guys find out and plan to do here.
Seems a cheap route would be to just put in the 1100 motor and bolt on the stuff from the 696 that fits, excepting the headers. If the FI bolts up, then do it.
I started modding in 1963 with a 1956 chevy 265ci. Full race duntov cam, blew it up, put in a short block 327ci with corvette heads, but intake and exhaust from the 265 till I could get some more money. Ran great, but did much better with the 4bb manifold for the 327 of course.
Would the stock dssa and sprockets line up with the 1100?
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10 MTS 1200 standard
09 M696 (wife's ride)
Raux
Guest
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #34 on:
July 24, 2011, 09:48:11 AM »
Quote from: tiger_one on July 24, 2011, 09:43:16 AM
I have a legitimate as any reason for stuffing a 1100 into the 696! My wife loves her modified lower 696 and the taller 796/1100 is not an option. So, I am all ears to what you guys find out and plan to do here.
Seems a cheap route would be to just put in the 1100 motor and bolt on the stuff from the 696 that fits, excepting the headers. If the FI bolts up, then do it.
I started modding in 1963 with a 1956 chevy 265ci. Full race duntov cam, blew it up, put in a short block 327ci with corvette heads, but intake and exhaust from the 265 till I could get some more money. Ran great, but did much better with the 4bb manifold for the 327 of course.
Would the stock dssa and sprockets line up with the 1100?
why not just lower an 1100?
696 rear suspension clevis and pull the forks through.
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tiger_one
Jr. Member
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Posts: 66
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #35 on:
July 24, 2011, 10:34:29 AM »
Believe me I have thought of that, but those wheels/tires are much bigger OD also. Her 696 is at about 28" seat height (OEM lower seat also) unladen and goes down another inch with the 130 lb rider, so about 27". Doubt that the taller 1100 would go that low, and besides, I might just want to mod that one for me instead of her. LOL
Her IS is 26.5", I was able to talk her into getting the 1" thick soles added to the touring boots. Really works great now, the whole combination, perfect bike for a small short person! Can only imagine what the 1100 lump would do to it. She also gets about 57-58mpg so that might go out the window also.
PS. I meant outside diameter for the bigger wheels/tires.
«
Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 12:35:32 PM by tiger_one
»
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10 MTS 1200 standard
09 M696 (wife's ride)
Raux
Guest
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #36 on:
July 24, 2011, 10:41:05 AM »
Quote from: tiger_one on July 24, 2011, 10:34:29 AM
Believe me I have thought of that, but those wheels/tires are much bigger ID also. Her 696 is at about 28" seat height (OEM lower seat also) unladen and goes down another inch with the 130 lb rider, so about 27". Doubt that the taller 1100 would go that low, and besides, I might just want to mod that one for me instead of her. LOL
Her IS is 26.5", I was able to talk her into getting the 1" thick soles added to the touring boots. Really works great now, the whole combination, perfect bike for a small short person! Can only imagine what the 1100 lump would do to it. She also gets about 57-58mpg so that might go out the window also.
the frames are the same, the tire is a 180 in the rear compared to the 160 in the rear but everything else is the same.
the only difference is the front forks are longer and the rear suspension top mount is longer. both of which can be swapped or modified.
i think the 1100 might have heavier springs, but that could be swapped out.
I really think you would have an easier time swapping out suspension pieces than a motor swap.
PLUS depending on the motor and the electronics you may get have issues with ABS and TC vs None or one and the needed parts on the 696 to match.
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tiger_one
Jr. Member
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Posts: 66
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #37 on:
July 24, 2011, 12:48:05 PM »
Wish it was that easy, but I have been lowering bikes for a while, so very familiar with the TIRE size vs Diameter deal. The 180/70/17 is over 2" taller than the little 160/60/17. 26.2" ver 24.56" = 2.36" which equates to 1.18" taller at the axle. Same thing at the front but less of a difference, so being already pulled up to the max, you cannot go any farther.
Much easier to stuff 1100 in the already fitted/handling 696 for my application.
Also, used 696, $5800, used 1100 over $9500 in most cases, no comparison.
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php
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10 MTS 1200 standard
09 M696 (wife's ride)
Raux
Guest
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #38 on:
July 24, 2011, 02:28:07 PM »
uh
160/60 -17 rear vs 180/55 -17 rear is a 3mm taller tire on the 1100
120/60 -17 front vs 120/70 -17 front is a 12mm taller tire on the 1100
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Raux
Guest
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #39 on:
July 24, 2011, 02:50:01 PM »
plus add more than 2k for an 1100 motor and ecu.
you could take an 1100 swap out the 120/70 front for a 120/60 front, lower the forks, lower the rear, use the low seat you have now... and you're right where you are now on height... well +3mm for the rear tire.
you'll have a better front suspension unless you've upgraded the 696.
and the bars are better being larger diameter in the center.
radial brake and clutch masters.
i mean i know it's your bike and all, but i think in the long run it could be done pretty easily. in fact have you checked out the female owner section here and asked them. a lot of them have lowered these bikes.
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tiger_one
Jr. Member
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Posts: 66
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #40 on:
July 24, 2011, 03:48:21 PM »
My bad, didn't realize that the 1100 uses a low profile 180, probably could lower it near but not as low as I have her 696. She is happy tho, OEM forks are good with my mods, so I will be selling the 848 forks and mods. Would have needed to revalve them and never got to that point, she went back to stock setup with the Tiger 1050 springs and mods.
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10 MTS 1200 standard
09 M696 (wife's ride)
2-Skinny
Head Mechanic, Technical and Research Consultant
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 288
Measure Twice, Cut Thrice...at least...
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #41 on:
July 24, 2011, 04:18:39 PM »
Questions regarding this I am curious about:
1) Is ECU on 1100 the same pinout and if there are map/flash differences what are they and can they be flashed onto a 696 ecu.
2) Are there any additional engine sensors on the 1100 that affect ECU operation.
3) Are throttle bodies the same for 1100 (or really, will 696 TB mount up ok)? I know that injectors are same part number...
4) Can a dual coil setup be made to work off of a single coil trigger?
5) Can an 1100 Hyper motor be run with 696 ecu/harness?
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I don't own a Ducati...but I wrench on one.
Raux
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Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #42 on:
July 24, 2011, 08:49:07 PM »
my assumptions
1) Is ECU on 1100 the same pinout and if there are map/flash differences what are they and can they be flashed onto a 696 ecu.
yes but needs a reflash
2) Are there any additional engine sensors on the 1100 that affect ECU operation.
no
3) Are throttle bodies the same for 1100 (or really, will 696 TB mount up ok)? I know that injectors are same part number...
yes but the rubber intake plenums are different (good way to check is part number, but pretty certain they are both 45mm
4) Can a dual coil setup be made to work off of a single coil trigger?
should be the same connector
5) Can an 1100 Hyper motor be run with 696 ecu/harness?
probably not. hyper is not seimens I don't think. maybe the evo
but most of these questions can be answered by comparing parts catalogs
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RC Fan
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 382
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #43 on:
July 25, 2011, 05:29:24 AM »
Quote from: tiger_one on July 24, 2011, 10:34:29 AM
Her IS is 26.5", I was able to talk her into getting the 1" thick soles added to the touring boots.
I agree with Raux. Go for the 1100! I am a short chick as well, and that is what I would like to do. Any chance you can elaborate (maybe send me a PM)on adding to the soles of your wife's boots? How did you do this, and did she have a hard time adjusting to the thickness of the soles?
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Cathy
Previous bikes: 2007 Suzuki Bandit 650S & 2009 Ducati Monster 696
Current bikes: 2009 Yamaha XT250 & 2012 Triumph Street Triple R
2-Skinny
Head Mechanic, Technical and Research Consultant
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 288
Measure Twice, Cut Thrice...at least...
Re: How hard? M1100 motor into 696
«
Reply #44 on:
July 25, 2011, 10:42:25 AM »
Did some research:
Here are some part number comparisons re: 696/1100/Hyper 1100 (all referenced for '09 model year):
Google Docs link for the file:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5jIrbZCusH9ZTc0ZWVlNzEtZDNmYS00MDRiLWJmZjUtYmI0YTVkN2E2MWQ0&hl=en_US
Some notes:
- Although the Hyper for this year uses the Marelli ECU and a slightly different intake setup, the heads have the same part number(s) as the M1100- which means that the intake/injection system will work on the Hyper engine.
-All 3 bikes use a 45mm throttle body setup, and the 696/1100 use the same injectors. the Hyper injector is a different part no. likely because of the different ECU.
-The Hyper uses different part numbers for the cylinders than the M1100- I am curious as to why this is- I don't see any visual differences.
-It would be helpful to compare all 3 intake manifolds to find out if there are any design/performance differences between the three. As would the throttle body assemblies- if the difference in part numbers only corresponds to a subtle difference and all 3 are essentially the same.
-Verdict is still out on actual differences between 696 and 1100 ECUs..
-Also, gearing for 1100 and Hyper is the same so no differences there...
Anybody note anything I missed? Biggest question I am trying to figure out with this:
-Can 696 ECU/Electronics/intake assembly be used to run an 1100 motor and if so, what mods would be needed to do this (as just slipping in the engine to everything there already would make the mod even easier.
*** -If engine swap is NOT done, would a hybrid combination of parts from these three engines (and perhaps the 1100 EVO) produce any interesting performance increases that could be incorporated into a 696 engine build.
Thoughts, thoughts... and some can again only be answered by getting the parts side by side and taking measurements, I wonder if there is someone at Ducati that would know and
would
help...
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I don't own a Ducati...but I wrench on one.
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