1199 Photo leak!

[zarn02]

So what does the 1198 have at the rear wheel?

154.74hp, 91.66ft-lb

According to this guy, on his particular bike, on that dyno, on that day:

http://www.ducati1198.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12524

According to the Wikipedia entry for the 1198, 157.91hp, 90.14ft-lb.

[ducatiz]

your mom

Lol

[EvilSteve]

They list dry and wet weight for the SF848, hopefully they'll start doing that for all their bikes.

[MadDuck]

Not sure where the other ~30 lbs would come from.

Frame & exhaust?

[ducatiz]

Frame & exhaust?

Talking about dry vs wet weight

[junior varsity]

List of things removed for dry weight # and approximate volumes or weights (to be nailed down later):

- battery - yt12bbs ('member when they were 16's?!)
- fuel - 15-20L, varying by model
- engine oil - ~3.5-4qt
- engine coolant
- fork oil
- were there others?

I also expect that weight to reflect the lightest "country-variant" made - so if there is a non-flapper model sold in Europe or South America, they'd start with it. So also remove the dumb fuel evap charcoal canister and tubing.

Then again, we may be doing the math differently - they may specify a group of "essential" parts and add their individual weights, then truncating to nearest whole number (rather than rounding). This would certainly omit the above list but would also cleverly omit some gaskets and seals, some nuts and bolts, etc.

The other-other method may use a set of originally spec'd prototyped parts with closer tolerances and more precise castings for tiny changes per part but totaling up to a pound or so net reduction. (hell, maybe more as the casting dies and such wear...)

[junior varsity]

Talking about dry vs wet weight

still talking about moms?


(sorry, I live near the burbs now, and they are everywhere)

[zooom]

Bayliss chimed in on his twitter apparently about the Panigale...

http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2011/09/troy-bayliss-says-not-to-worry-about-ducati-1199-panigale/

“Been a while but anyone worried about the new Ducati Superbike need not, matched my best time ever in the arvo when track is bit slower.”

@TroyBaylisstic

[rac3r]

Latest Tweet from Bayliss

Finish at Mugello with 51.3 my best on 1198 was 51.9 , that shall do for this trip #out of here

[IdZer0]

I think it's all pre-emptive damage control. Rossi's also now saying the GP11/12 problem isn't the frameless design (carbon or Alu) but getting the weigth over the front-end. I think they're scare MotoGP failure will hinder sales of the 1199 Panigale.

[thought]

i'm pretty sure that any normal person that gets a 1199 will never be able to put enough stress on the frame for the frameless design to show it's failings.

wsbk is another matter though... but like bayliss said, in street trim i think it will be a huge boost in speed the 1198

[IdZer0]

I don't think they're not worried about the reality (design), they're worried about perception (sales). People are discussing the link between the 1199 and MotoGP on several fora and in the media. I doesn't need to be true to hurt sales, just people believing it's true is enough.

[pennyrobber]

I think it's all pre-emptive damage control. Rossi's also now saying the GP11/12 problem isn't the frameless design (carbon or Alu) but getting the weigth over the front-end. I think they're scare MotoGP failure will hinder sales of the 1199 Panigale.

I don't think the sales will be hindered all that much. What percentage of 1098/1198 owners do you think actually follow Moto GP?

[junior varsity]

i'm pretty sure that any normal person that gets a 1199 will never be able to put enough stress on the frame for the frameless design to show it's failings.

wsbk is another matter though... but like bayliss said, in street trim i think it will be a huge boost in speed the 1198

disagree. and partly because whether I feel it is not really the point.   there's no way to define "normal person" - there's coffee-shop ducatista, the weekend enthusasts, the canyon carvers, 0-mile collectors, no M-class-license+headlights-removed track-day-only riders, amateur racers, and AMA/Foreign Equivalents & WSBK riders.   are the only riders to experience chassis problems going to be the Rossi's, Hayden's, Stoner's, ... or the Bayliss/Fogarty/Capirossi/Bostrom/Roche kind of riders?⁰  

these aren't intended to be likened to the Lamborghini's of motorcycles (lookin at you, MV Agusta); these are to be race-bred and raced - if it won't win, scrap it - similar to the Ferrari factory's mentality and approach to building their flagship supercar line.  And for the top of the line model, if it happens to be priced out of the range of some customers, so be it - don't water it down to sell more of them. There's a sea Japanese bikes that are just that (i.e. "more comfortable ergonomics to appeal to the masses as street friendly to the detriment of track riding posture...") and in the coming years, I expect to watch that bland, "not-so-super"-bike segment grow with additions from Chinese and Korean manufacturers - each vying for a bit of the large sportbike market.

Ducati is Italian motorcycle manufacturer whose reputation has been built on racing and winning, and this bike is to be their new flagship superbike/race-replica model. There likely will be some variant that is a special-purpose homologation model. If the new design is inherently inferior but only perceptible if pushed very hard, i say scrap it.   let BMW Motorrad continue to test and implement odd-ball solutions to problems that don't actually exist (lookin' at you, duolever front end) or aren't better than the existing approaches.   To stick with an inherently inferior design - that is perceived by those pushing the race-derived bike - will do little to keep those kinds of customers with the brand, or attract similar customers.  Leaving Ducati trying to market an exotic Italian bike at a higher price to those whose preferences are more aligned with the 'masses'.  And some customer in the back of the room pipes up, asking "why's the seat so high, and handlebars so low? Its too uncomfortable!¹" and another follows with "i don't like the noisy clutch! make them all in oil bath!²" then "can you offer it in unconventionally bright pearlescent paint colors? - like orange and green!³"

...and over the years Ducati becomes the Lambo of Italian bikes, displacing MV Agusta further into obscurity.   And I end up buying a motorcycle from Hyundai or Kia.    

⁰ - in that case, lets switch back to less expensive conventionally mounted two-piece calipers, semi-floating or fixed rotors, external-reservoir-less shocks, axial-pump master cylinders, rubber brake lines, lower spec tires (pirelli supercorsas are expensive!), and valve springs... cost would go down drastically - to same as Japanese SBK's!
¹ - People (and Magazines) complained of 916-748-996-998's ergonomics: seat higher than the handlebars + really long reach, but it wasn't made for pedestrian uses, like bike night or commutes - it was made to win, and it won.
² - Honda, for example, produces showroom models only with wet clutches but at top level MotoGP - they, like all manufacturers, run dry clutches.
³ - seen the colors Lamborghini puts out now? trying to make it into hip-hop videos i suppose, but they all appear gaudy/flashy to me.

[junior varsity]

I don't think the sales will be hindered all that much. What percentage of 1098/1198 owners do you think actually follow Moto GP?

it was fairly high when I was in Dallas - if they didn't watch the races, they at least saw the results. And that is even more damaging in some cases.