MotoGP Round 8 - Mugello (SPOILERS)

[thought]

like announcers keep saying... the next alien will actually be the love child of simo and dovi.

[ZLTFUL]

like announcers keep saying... the next alien will actually be the love child of simo and dovi.

Actually they said if Sic and Dovi were to have a love child...well..you'd have Rossi. 

[OT]

dovi Ben is fast, that's not the issue.  but he's not do or die fast, he's very calculating.  he's not going to win a title.  he was actually more aggressive when he was on the Sterilgarde Yamahaprivateer 800

Not flaming, just wondering....opinions, please.

[El Matador]

Not flaming, just wondering....opinions, please.

I agree wholeheartedly. Until he starts muscling people around and asserting himself a little more, I don't see a title in his future

[Speeddog]

Not flaming, just wondering....opinions, please.

I agree wholeheartedly. Until he starts muscling people around and asserting himself a little more, I don't see a title in his future

So.... going up the inside of Lorenzo on the start at Mugello, a good bit of dicing with Simo, and taking Simo in the *last* corner... that doesn't count?

[zooom]

I agree wholeheartedly. Until he starts muscling people around and asserting himself a little more at/towards the front, I don't see a title in his future

maybe he can do that on the 1000CC M1 in 2012.....but we have to wait and see...especially since silly season has really yet to kcik off in that regard...

SPEAKING OF....seems like any and all talk of movement and all that stuff is pretty much muted....especially in comparo to last year with the Alien movements and all....

[Spidey]

Not flaming, just wondering....opinions, please.

You don't have to a be a do-or-die-The Ben fanboy to disagree with this one.  The Ben's put enough moves on people to distinguish himself from Dovi's milquetoast riding.  Off the top of my head, The Ben's put seriously last lap moves on Hayden, Dovi (even making Dovi highside trying to keep up) and Simoncelli.  Outbraking Dovi last year was just insanity.  Yes, he's calculating, but he can drop the hammer in a way that Dovi can't.  That said, I agree that he hasn't shown that he has what it takes to win a title, both in terms of consistency and outright race pace.  People can keep making excuses for him this year by saying its only his sophmore year, but if he doesn't come into his own by next year, he's peaked.  I'll leave a wee bit of wiggle room for the clustermake the beast with two backs that is going to be created by switching to the 1000cc bikes, but the Ben needs to seriously step up if he's going to live up to his fanboy's expectations. 

OTOH, I think we're seeing pretty much the extent of what Dovi can do this season -- be a consistently fast non-Alien.   He's third in the championship because thus far, he's been fast enough and b/c he is finishing races and staying healthy. 

[fastwin]

Staying healthy and finishing races are two huge X factors in anyones title chase. Regardless of the class. You can place well and even win a few races but you also have to have the other two to win a championship.

[zooom]

OTOH, I think we're seeing pretty much the extent of what Dovi can do this season -- be a consistently fast non-Alien.   He's third in the championship because thus far, he's been fast enough and b/c he is finishing races and staying healthy. 

he has one of the best machines on the grid this year and he is consistant...

[gm2]

re ben, you also have to remember how the 800s HAVE to be ridden.  you have to set up moves 4 corners out... or 3 laps out.  as for racecraft and balls, he showed us what he can do in the AMA and WSBK.  with a bike that allows for squarer corners, next year will be a different series.

but, yeah, to everything else spidey said.. if you haven't seen bold moves from ben on the GP bike, you haven't been paying attention.  he earned his stripes simply with those outbraking moves against dovi in aragon last year.  that was amazing shit.

i don't think he quite has it to consistently run with stoner and lorenzo yet.  he's close but those guys have it start to finish, every race.  he doesn't quite have 7th gear sorted.  ben is really strong at the end of the race and great with tire management.  the start of the race is a lot better than last year but not quite there.

[OT]

OK, but it seems to me that (the) Ben has shown his predatory best only when the rabbit's within reach and gets his undivided attention.  This is what I recall when he was clawing at Mladin (a really tough nut to crack), after Haga returned from his injuries in WSBK, and when Simo was trying to beat him last weekend.

In those situations, he seems to really bear down and compete for the spot "at all costs".

Otherwise, he seems to be 'racing' with the same flaming-barbed-wire energy that he shows during interviews....

I'd like to see the guy win a title, but just not sure that he really wants it badly enough.  After all, he is riding the 'same' bike that Rossi/Burgess mostly developed and that Lorenzo rode to the title last year and to the top of the podium last week...

Maybe there'll be signs of life in the upcoming races...if not, it'll be a shame.

[derby]

OK, but it seems to me that (the) Ben has shown his predatory best only when the rabbit's within reach and gets his undivided attention.  This is what I recall when he was clawing at Mladin (a really tough nut to crack), after Haga returned from his injuries in WSBK, and when Simo was trying to beat him last weekend.

In those situations, he seems to really bear down and compete for the spot "at all costs".

i might agree with you IF ben had a tendency to crash or take others out in the process, which he doesn't. you've basically described simoncelli, and spies is no simoncelli.

[Drunken Monkey]

Staying healthy and finishing races are two huge X factors in anyones title chase. Regardless of the class. You can place well and even win a few races but you also have to have the other two to win a championship.

Ask Nori Haga about that 

[OT]

i might agree with you IF ben had a tendency to crash or take others out in the process, which he doesn't. you've basically described simoncelli, and spies is no simoncelli.

Well, no....I think he's shown in AMA and WSBK that he's good enough, and that 'all costs' riding doesn't mean he's going to lose control whenever he pushes the envelope.  In that regard he's probably a better rider/racer than Simoncelli - who I recall had his share of crashes in 250s(?) before his promotion.

Not trying to be critical, as I certainly don't have his talent; just pondering his desire...maybe he's bored with the whole thing, which would not be that unusual for an unmentored, very talented kid to whom winning came fairly easily and often at an early age.  Or, he's far more cerebral about racing than he lets on...

BTW - Is there a race somewhere this coming weekend?  

[gm2]

maybe he's bored with the whole thing, which would not be that unusual for an unmentored, very talented kid to whom winning came fairly easily and often at an early age.  Or, he's far more cerebral about racing than he lets on...

you're letting his demeanor fool you.  you don't take down mladin, win wsbk on your first try, or pole/podium/rookie of the year in GP if you aren't mentally out for blood.