AMA's efforts to prohibit E15

[thought]

enjoy that length and modified email, Pete Sessions!

In other news, military is investigating non-food, non-fossil fuel alternatives.  largest domestic single buyer of fuel, so they got some weight. their end goal is 'cost-efficiency': if it ain't as cheap, it ain't a solution.  currently looking at inedible mustard variant that is used in crop rotation. pretty cool according to me.

yeah, on a purely environmental front, the cellulosic ethanol production methods make a lot more sense.  once perfected, it can basically turn any kind of plant into ethanol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol

[gregrnel]

When I fill up away from MKE, I can pay for premium 100% gasoline, my bike runs about 30 degrees cooler and idles much smoother. The E10 is already bad enough!

[beetlejude]

Done!

[Scissors]

Comments like this get threads locked.

No politics please.

The subject of the thread is a call for political action ("...rallying behind a bill..."), but fine.  I'll refrain from further comment.   

[herm]

....telling stations what they can and can't sell?
/snipped to avoid politics
.

i think the call to action is to avoid a situation where we HAVE to use E15, rather than one where the stations can't sell it. i also think that in this case it is about consumers speaking out about a product they don't want to use.

[junior varsity]

Yeah, but the way "the world works" would be subsidies/credits/benefits making it less cost-efficient not to use this, end result of no more regular gas at most stations. 

[wernja]

Sent an email.  Thanks for the heads up on this!

[ducatiz]

Just an FYI

Ethanol is a great fuel

For engines DESIGNED to use it

It's been used in PURE form for almost 25 years in Brazil.  You smell it everywhere, the exhaust is different.  E100 is the MOST common motor fuel in Brazil for cars.

But our cars and bikes are not designed for it. 

But as a fuel, it is fine.  Just like diesel is a better fuel than gasoline (has more energy), gasoline is a better fuel than ethanol (in terms of energy) but if the ethanol is cheap (E100 is around $1/gallon in Brazil) and it is environmentally neutral, AND you have engines designed for it, who cares?

I for one would LOVE to see E100 cars being sold and E100 available at the pump if the conditions above are met (cheap, env neutral, engines available).  Sell it alongside G100 gasoline and D100 diesel.

[junior varsity]

i agree, completely, with that and i just want to make sure my vehicles ('modern', 'dated', 'classic' or 'antique') can stay on the road with regular maintenance rather than substantial overhauls.   

[ducatiz]

i agree, completely, with that and i just want to make sure my vehicles ('modern', 'dated', 'classic' or 'antique') can stay on the road with regular maintenance rather than substantial overhauls.   

i don't know that can be guaranteed -- look at what's happened with all the cars requiring leaded fuel.  Most of the older ones that relied on lead to eliminate predetonation have simply died off, or are only used on weekends and are dying a slow death.

I don't think anyone can guarantee a vehicle fuel will remain available forever, but I do think we can be smart about how we administer them and offer substitutes where possible.

[junior varsity]

i just want to be able to ride the ol' ducbomination900 for awhile...


i got no problems with dropping a 'new fuel' big honkin' crate motor in a hotrod, i'm no purist, but I have trouble imagining a retrofit kit to make the wide variety of [looking exclusively at gasoline] engine configurations in powersports. Two-stroke, 4-stroke, various head designs, fuel pump type, fuel injection/carburation, fuel/air manifold configuration...

There are certainly people who are anti-change 'wholesale', because they like things the way 'they are'.  I don't think I'm quite there - but some things in a changed form are less appealing.  I have trouble getting excited about electric cars or motorcycles - even in the racing environment - because they are missing the sounds and smells. I'd go so far as to list those in "things I like about motorcycling" along with rush of speed, leaning to turn, 'thrill' of exposure, better parking, blah blah blah.

So.... I'm all for improvements/changes to combustion that will only somewhat reduce (rather than eliminate) some of the things I enjoy about motorcycling. Just need it be workable for my ol' carbonster900 or don't push gasoline off the market (essentially) making my bike nothing more than a garage decoration.  (i'd be pleading hard to get one of them brought inside and put on display at that point).

[speedknot]

The subject of the thread is a call for political action ("...rallying behind a bill..."), but fine.  I'll refrain from further comment.

Good point!

My Flex-Fuel Tundra works great with an ethanol concentration up to 85%.  But of course its designed that way.  I tested my old lawnmower on E85 a few years ago and the only noticeable "initial" difference was that it ran much hotter.  I didn't keep the E85 in there long enough to find out what it does to the internal fuel system but it's probably not good.

Here in NY, we have 10% ethanol in our fuels.  Its bad enough what the E10 does to my small engines and boat.  It seems like its only going to get worse with E15.  The E85 is already available to vehicles that are equipped to handle it so just leave it at that!

[Privateer]

while this is an older thread, the topic is the same:


House Committee action on bill to require EPA to seek independent scientific analysis on the effects of 15 percent ethanol
Urge your Representative to support today!  http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=54681921&queueid=[capwiz:queue_id]

On February 7, 2012, the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology will vote on H.R. 3199, introduced by Representative Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI) on October 14, 2011. This bill would require the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to seek independent scientific analysis on the effects of 15 percent ethanol blend (E15) gasoline.

To watch a live webcast of the markup, click here.

"The EPA's decision to allow E15 into the marketplace will impact every American who owns a car, lawnmower or boat," Sensenbrenner said. Automakers insist that using E15 will void warranties, lower fuel efficiency and cause premature engine failure. In off-road engines, the effects can even be dangerous for users.

"There are serious concerns that the EPA used only one Department of Energy test and rushed E15's introduction into the marketplace," Sensenbrenner said. "This test was limited in scope and ignored a plethora of evidence – albeit inconvenient evidence for the EPA – that shows E15 gasoline has a negative effect on engines."

The new E15 gasoline formulation may appear at a fueling station near you and you need to be careful where you use this new fuel blend. That is because the EPA, in October 2010, approved E15 for use in model year 2007 and newer light duty vehicles (cars, light-duty trucks, and medium-duty passenger vehicles). In January 2011, it added model year 2001-2006 light duty vehicles to the approved list.

Riders should pay attention to this list because no motorcycles or ATVs are currently listed.

The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) is concerned about E15 because it burns hotter than gasoline that contains a lesser amount of ethanol. In engines not designed to dissipate that extra heat, damage in the form of premature wear can result. Although this is a concern in all motorcycles, it's particularly problematic for air-cooled engines found in many bikes. Moreover, use of E15 may even void the manufacturer warranty.

Since the approved list includes many light-duty vehicles in use today, refineries, distributors, and fueling stations may choose to offer primarily E15 gasoline because of this action by the EPA. This should concern all motorcyclists and off-highway enthusiasts since this may affect the availability of gasoline with less or no ethanol (E10 or E0).

We need your help to pass H.R. 3199. You can find contact information for your Representative at AmericanMotorcyclist.com > Rights > Issues & Legislation, then enter your zip code in the "Find your Officials" box. A prewritten e-mail is available for you to send to your federal elected official immediately by following the "Take Action" option and entering your information.

In a previous AMA alert, Representative Sensenbrenner also introduced H.R. 748. This bill would prohibit the Administrator of the EPA from authorizing the use of gasoline containing greater than 10 percent ethanol in certain vehicles. For more information on H.R. 748, click here.

Again, the AMA urges you to write your Representative today and ask them to support H.R. 748 and H.R. 3199.

For a detailed analysis of this issue, including access to related documents, please sign up to be an AMA Defender member at AmericanMotorcyclist.com/membership/join. Defender members who sign up to receive Action Alerts automatically receive the detailed analysis.

If you are an AMA member, thank you for your support. If you aren't a member, please consider joining. More members means more clout and your support helps the AMA fight for your rights – on the road, trail and in the halls of government. To join, go to AmericanMotorcyclist.com/membership/join.

[Greg]

The refiners are not going to offer E15 until somebody absolves them of liability.

[muskrat]

The refiners are not going to offer E15 until somebody absolves them of liability.

I hope that becomes the truth