Should I let my (almost) 16 year old son get a bike?

[Bigbore4]

<snip>
Oh ya, the rules.

Motorcycle key was the first and most effective form of negative reinforcement for any transgression.
NO TICKETS
I defined his riding area, geographic limits
No crossing the 4 lane divided at an uncontrolled intersection etc
WEAR THE GEAR

<snip>

I forgot one of the more important ones that thankfully several of you hit on, The safety course.  Here in MN it is required for under 21 to get the motorcycle endorsement, and I spaced it.

For the record I am way conservative in most things, but I still say yes with parental involvement, strict rules, guidelines and consequences.  Your dilemma is the freakishly heavy traffic in CA.

Move to MN, give up 4 or 5 months of riding for daily sanity?  OK, no more wise guy in a serious and great thread, thanks for starting it.

[the ron]

I am going through the same thing with my 18 year old nephew. he wants to buy a k1000 and i tried to talk him out of it but it was of no use. he however is a seasoned moto cross racer so he is familar with the controls of the machine, but more importantly, he has been driving on the street in his car for 3 years now. i would definatley put a halt to the bike buying issue. learning the ins and outs of traffic and navagating in a car should come first. he will undoubtley have some close calls in a car. those close calls in a car are alot more forgiving than on a bike. give him some time to learn the rules of the road. he will have plenty of time to ride after that.

the ron

[sbrguy]

honestly i'm not a parent, you are.  and i am not wanting to rain on your parade at all.. but i will give you what may be viewed as a more cynical/negative view that doesn't blow sunshine up your behind "saying go for it".

basically you know as well as anyone else you hve already made up your mind, nothing we say here is going to change your mind.

the kids that got bikes young that were "responsible, good grades and wouldn't hurt a fly" and dead are not posting here saying "i wish i didn't get the bike" remember that.

also remember every parent THINKS their own kid is repsonsible, good and would never never never do anything remotely stupid as those stupid kids on tv that get into trouble, as you well know that is not true, most of the time most of us just got "lucky" and didn't kill ourselves and had fun in the process and hopefuly didn't get caught by the police.  just be realistic, nobody's child is as well behaved as what they see through their rose colored glasses and you know that.

that being said, if you want your kid to ride a bike, tel him to race a track bike or dirtbike.  keep him to a controlled environment and that is much safer and hey if he has talent to make it a livelihood great.  hey he can go faster on the track than he ever will on the streets.

topanga canyon north of LA is not "rural" as you say, its only a 15 minute ride/drive to the major parts of LA and such, if you think your kid is going to stick to only topanga canyon and not head down to pch or other areas you are dreaming, he is going to be 16, even if you say "don't go on this or that road" you know he will with his buddies/riding buddies eventually probably in the 3rd week he has the bike.

in the end you have to do what you think is right and what you can live with.

like you said he is still a 16 year old, and remember how much stupid stuff did you and your buddies did in high school and didn't  get caught and said "geez that was close"..

good luck and stay safe.

[minnesotamonster]

I forgot one of the more important ones that thankfully several of you hit on, The safety course.  Here in MN it is required for under 21 to get the motorcycle endorsement, and I spaced it.

sorry to get off topic here, but, did they recently change the rules in MN? Just asking because I got my endorsement last year without taking the safety course and I was under 21.

[Bigbore4]

sorry to get off topic here, but, did they recently change the rules in MN? Just asking because I got my endorsement last year without taking the safety course and I was under 21.

I will have to dig in and re-check.  My kid was 16, so perhaps the age is 18 to get by.  Back on topic, the MSF course is mandatory in my book for any beginning rider.  And TOF (this old fart) is seriously considering the advanced course sometime this year.

[topangster]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the well-considered feedback. It's interesting that such a consensus emerged from asking this question (I posted it on two other sites, too -- the Pashnit forum and Ducati.MS, both of which pretty much wound up with the same general opinion.)  A few people have said just let him ride, but BY FAR the most consistent advice has been to let him drive a cage for a year or two, while really learning how to ride in the dirt, and THEN see about letting him get a street bike (granted, he can do what he wants then but I would still have major input on the decision...)

This makes a lot of sense to me, and what the direction I was leaning in when I made the post. I do think he has the coordination and reflexes to become a very good rider, but learning how to control a motorcycle while at the same time learning how traffic really works is just too much input at once. He is bound to make some mistakes, and it's better to make those in a cage.

Someone pointed out that after driving a car for many years, you have certain instincts and perceptions about traffic that come with you when you start riding a bike. But you lack those instincts right out of the gate. I'd rather he developed them in a car.

A small dual-sport (maybe a 90) is a possibility for going to and from school (it's a mile away on a rural road) and to develop some dirt skills. He's ridden ATVs quite a lot, but they're a far cry from a bike. We have a couple of acres so he could ride at home pretty easily. I will probably pick one up myself so we can ride together. Then he can get a beater car when he's 16. Once I see that he really does understand the road, we can look at taking the next step.

So MANY THANKS for all the responses, it really helped.  Guess I'm in the market for a small dual sport now...or maybe two!   Oh, and in answer to some of the questions posted, my wife is totally FOR getting him a bike now. But she's Danish and is probably the most risk-favoring woman I've ever met (perhaps that's why I married her). She's probably who I really need to worry about when she starts to ride!

[Ducnial]

Its a scientific fact..   The average teenage brain (<17) does not have the mental capacity to properly access risk.    And riding a motorcycle all all about risk management.  If you're serious might want to consider professional assessment to help manage your risk.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-04-04-teen-brain_N.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070412115231.htm

Old Man's POV

[El Matador]

Its a scientific fact..   The average teenage brain (<17) does not have the mental capacity to properly access risk.    And riding a motorcycle all all about risk management.  If you're serious might want to consider professional assessment to help manage your risk.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-04-04-teen-brain_N.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070412115231.htm

Old Man's POV

Oh c'mon!

I'm sick and tired of people thinking that children and teenagers are borderline retarded and should be led by the hand until they're 40.

Ever wonder why in today's society everybody is so afraid to make decisions and take action?

The rampant overprotection present in America is damaging the future by creating "men" who are too afraid of doing anything for themselves and getting hurt. If you don't get hurt every once in a while, you will never learn!

from one the articles:

"The analysis, by Temple University psychologist Laurence Steinberg, says stricter laws and policies limiting their behaviors would be more effective than education programs"

How convenient, this travesty of science advocates that instead of taking the time to teach your children to think, you should just impose ever stricter rules upon them and forget about your responsibility.

This is a blatant effort to give some sort of legitimacy to overprotection so parents can sleep better at night when they're choking the life out of their children.

Anyone else feel like this is straight out of an Ayn Rand book?

This is about as pderbyerous as when "studies" determined that black people were unfit to fly airplanes in an attempt to shut down the Tuskegee program.

Truth is, the only way people really learn something is by doing it. Yes, your children will get hurt. I understand that you as a parent don't want this to happen, but sadly, this is the best way.

Kids learn real quick to not touch the frying pan once they get burnt. They learn that stupid action have consequences, and if you let them, they will learn to apply this knowledge to the rest of the aspects in their life.

I fully understand the desire to save your offspring from all the dangers of the world, but if you don't let them find out for themselves, you are hurting them more than any of those dangers ever could.

[PizzaMonster]

It looks like I'm coming to this party after it's over but I'll add my 2 cents anyways.

I've already gone through this with my son.  When he was about 12 I bought him an old XR100 and he learned to ride in dirt and on trails.  He was good.  Very much a natural.  I watched  him ride with a kid on a race prepped 80cc Kawi and he held his own while riding that tired old beater.

Three years later he was downhill mountain biking and became Provincial champion.  He definitely has a feel for two wheels.

But when it came to street riding on a motorcycle I said no.  I have 100% faith in his skills.  I doubt that he would do anything stupid but maybe I'm just an overly trusting parent.  My number one deciding factor was the other 50 million or so substandard drivers he would be exposed to. I want him to develop "street-smarts" in something a bit more forgiving than a motorcycle.

We made a deal and so far it's held.  I told him that if he stayed away from bikes  "for a few years" my S-10 pickup was his.  At 16 I gave him the use of the truck (with limits on usage).  By 17 he had unrestricted use of it as he proved himself through no accidents or traffic tickets.  

He is now 19.  He's put a pile of miles on that truck.  He has driven almost every kind of vehicle under 3 tons and pulled trailers.  Never an accident or a ticket.  His one off-road excursion was while I was showing him how to drift during a snowfall   and that was pretty much me conspiring to teach him some humility    .   Lately he's sat on my Monster many times.  I know he is ready but he hasn't pushed the issue.  (yet...)

If tomorrow he said he wanted a bike I think I'd be okay with it.  (Worried...but okay... ...)

[PizzaMonster]

Oh c'mon!

I'm sick and tired of people thinking that children and teenagers are borderline retarded and should be led by the hand until they're 40...................................

.................................I fully understand the desire to save your offspring from all the dangers of the world, but if you don't let them find out for themselves, you are hurting them more than any of those dangers ever could.

I'm with you 1000000%   (with some restrictions of course   ..)......

[rose351]

Oh c'mon!

I'm sick and tired of people thinking that children and teenagers are borderline retarded and should be led by the hand until they're 40.

Ever wonder why in today's society everybody is so afraid to make decisions and take action?

The rampant overprotection present in America is damaging the future by creating "men" who are too afraid of doing anything for themselves and getting hurt. If you don't get hurt every once in a while, you will never learn!


...blah, blah, blah...


I fully understand the desire to save your offspring from all the dangers of the world, but if you don't let them find out for themselves, you are hurting them more than any of those dangers ever could.

+11ty billion

[Mac_48]

I would say that they need to pay for everything and wait till their 18 or possibly 19. that's what my parents did with me and I'm glad.  I was a "responsible" kid but I still rallied the shit out of my truck.  My parent's viewed me as a responsible kid but I know that I would have done something stupid if I had gotten a bike.  Now, one year of college under my belt, they have finally agreed to let me get a bike as long as I pay for everything.  I whole heartedly agree with not sheltering your kid but at the same time I would give them time to mature before giving them the responsibility of a bike.  I'm no expert, this is just my opinion

[Pancake81]

Let me start by saying I am in no way a parent (that I know of) to any of my own children.

Looking back at myself when I was the brisk age of 16 I can recall dreaming of streetbikes and crotch-rockets. Actually looking at my whole life I can remember buying motorcycle mags just to drool of honda z50's and what not. Well... I am 23 now and still a young buck to many of you. Like some previous posts I can recall all the DumbAss stuff I did and the vehicles I wrote off and the drinking that I was doing at that age. I was by no means a retatrd or a drug user, just a kid, who like many, partied too much and buckled under peer pressure here and there.

If I can recall I got my learners at 17 or 18 (which my dad had to approve of at teh DMV because I was under 19) which was an OK time for myself. I was old enough and responsible enough to realize the power and respect that was needed to operate the machine. I did have about 6 years of intense dirtbike riding though, the latest of the bikes being CR 250s for the last few years. Anyways, my dad said ok, on one condition, he wasnt going to push me around in a f*cking wheelchair for the rest of my life. I will always remember that one  .

YOu know your kid the best, make a judgement call. If you want to buy a little time tell him he has to pay for half the bike, or be able to afford all of his own gear. Make a few simple rules, like he has to get 50 hours on the bike under our supervision before he can ride alone. Make it work in our favor, you only have a few more years to dangle things over his head before he can just go do them.

You said he would love to ride with him right? Well if he truelly is interested in riding he will take what he can get. If he is just in it for the random pu$$y he thinks a bike will bring he will just say screw it when you push a few basic rules to ensure his safety and your conscience while he is out alone.

[Loyalizer]

“I am not a parent”.

However, I have always wanted a motorcycles, but realized I was not mature enough to ride. As a teen, I felt the urge to speed up when others passed me, and I notice the tendency when I ride up along side others to pass to do so too. Being an athlete and having played competitive sports in both high school and college, I think all athletes have that competitive edge even when simply driving on a FWY. But hey, everyones different.

When I felt I was mature enough I took the MSF. Bought  proper gear and began hunting down a motorcycle. I completed the course in April of 2006 and didn't find a bike until March of 2007 (06’ Ducati Monster 620, her name is Delphina). 

I bought the Keith Code book and read some of it. But I also jumped on Youtube and typed in motorcycle accidents. I watched them religiously from April 06 to March 07 and still do occasionally.

My logic was this, If I still wanted bike after all I had seen then it was meant to be. I inundated myself with knowledge of the subject, I felt, before making the purchase. I did however notice that most accidents seem to occur while trying to impress people. i.e. wheelies and other reckless maneuvers. On youtube I separated the obvious squid incidents from the ones I felt were more practical everyday accidents. Those are the ones I concentrate on. I felt it helps to see what can go wrong in order to recognize it and hopefully avoid it in the future. I now have over 32k miles and have gone through my fair share of trials and tribulations.

I don't know what you should do and I am certainly the last to tell you, but I will say this, I wish I had learned to ride sooner and had a dad like yourself, to show me the right way how, and how to properly respect the situation. Only you know you, and you are a better judge of your kids mentality than any of us.

Be Just and Fear not...

[Manny]

A cheap car and a dirt bike. 

You know he's gonna wreck both pretty soon, so make it a car no one cares about and a dirt bike (good training and wrecking a motoX bike is different from getting hit by a car on the streets).

Some things are worth waiting for...