What's wrong with the GP11?

[OT]

My impression from the article is that the biggest 'change' in the GP12 is that it is hyper-adjustable; even the angle between the heads on the engine!  Sounds far more like a test bike than a racing bike...  

[derby]

Sounds far more like a test bike than a racing bike... 

sounds more like every other bike on the grid that doesn't have a carbon fiber frame.

[OT]

sounds more like every other bike on the grid that doesn't have a carbon fiber frame.

I suppose they're all tweakable to some degree for race set-up reasons; Ducati's concept sounds more like desperate groping than fine tuning, or was Ducati just a 'generation' behind last season?

[koko64]

I spose it has happened to the best of them, Yamaha went thru a period of struggling with chatter, Honda went thru a period of the frame too flexi after being too ridgid and the power twisting the chassis. Aprilias light switch motor and crazy lethal computer, Suzulis terrible/lethal computer and ride by wire,  Kawasakis vicious engine and too stiff chassis.


They'll sort it out eventually. (I hope).

[gm2]

I suppose they're all tweak able to some degree for race set-up reasons; Ducati's concept sounds more like desperate groping than fine tuning, or was Ducati just a 'generation' behind last season?

you suppose they're all adjustable..?  =)

re a generation behind, they'd been developing the 800 for 4 years.  developing means you refine, refine, refine.  they had just gotten to a place where they didn't have enough room to move, or at least that was rossi and JB's feeling about it.

moving the basline setting more toward the middle of the range of possible adjustments doesn't make it hyper-adjustable.  they only said they moved the needle, not made the scale bigger.  changing the angle of the engine, for one, makes all that possible.

[OT]

you suppose they're all adjustable..?  =)

I was replying to derby's comment on my previous post...did I misinterpret what he said?  From the article, it sounded like the Duc has more adjustment points than an Erector Set....the less the engineer knows about the first-principles of his machine the more of a Rube Goldberg it becomes in order to control it.  They're committed to what sounds like a stiff and unpredictable engine/frame configuration, so the rest of the bike has to be tweakable to get it to work as desired.  So, how many variables do these GP bikes typically have - 2, 5, 10, 100?  Is the Duc's range of adjustment more/same/less than the other manufacturers?

re a generation behind, they'd been developing the 800 for 4 years.  developing means you refine, refine, refine.  they had just gotten to a place where they didn't have enough room to move, or at least that was rossi and JB's feeling about it.

moving the basline setting more toward the middle of the range of possible adjustments doesn't make it hyper-adjustable.  they only said they moved the needle, not made the scale bigger.  changing the angle of the engine, for one, makes all that possible.

Perhaps, but my interpretation of Preziosi's presentation is that very little in this bike is not adjustable (i.e., hyper = many dimensions; it does not mean the degree of each adjustment), which leads me to conclude that they either still don't understand (very much about) how all the chassis/rider parts work together, or are very close to solving the biggest problem(s) but have learned that the bike is so unstable in some areas (of the racing envelope) that it's taking this level of refinement to sort it out to everyone's satisfaction.  That's not a bad thing, cause if they can work it out they may have a wonderful bike when they're done.

Goes back to the old discussion about Casey and the Duc....rider or bike.  It may turn out that was the perfect storm (tires excluded) that no one could predict or duplicate - serendipity at its finest.

Hoping they work it out, too, as Rossi and Nicky are both too good to be wallowing out the ends of their careers in 8th place for technical reasons beyond their control.

[gm2]

Hoping they work it out, too, as Rossi and Nicky are both too good to be wallowing out the ends of their careers in 8th place for technical reasons beyond their control.

if 2012 goes like 2011, you can be guaran-damn-teed that you'll see rossi on a japanese bike in 2013.

..or maybe an Aprilia CRTish thing 

[ducpainter]

if 2012 goes like 2011, you can be guaran-damn-teed that you'll see rossi on a japanese bike in 2013.

..or maybe an Aprilia CRTish thing 

...anything but the Duc.

'Spose he'd ride a Bimmer with Colin?

[triangleforge]

...anything but the Duc.

'Spose he'd ride a Bimmer with Colin?

If you think Casey had trouble convincing Ducati that the bike was wrong, just talk to a BMW engineer someday to find out how much worse it could have been...

[ducpainter]

If you think Casey had trouble convincing Ducati that the bike was wrong, just talk to a BMW engineer someday to find out how much worse it could have been...

Point taken.

[fastwin]

Point taken.

What he said.

[Triple J]

...anything but the Duc.

'Spose he'd ride a Bimmer with Colin?

I don't see Rossi leaving Ducati unless someone else offers him a factory ride. No way in hell he goes to a CRT that doesn't have a snowball's chance of winning, regardless of the rider. At least Ducati has the potential.

That is, unless the rules in 2013 allow the CRTs to actually compete for wins.

[Speeddog]

I think Carmelo is going to *make* it so the CRT bikes are competitive very soon.

He's pissed.

[zooom]

That is, unless the rules in 2013 allow the CRTs to actually compete for wins.

I think Carmelo is going to *make* it so the CRT bikes are competitive very soon.

He's pissed.

well, lets see what happens with the APE because that will dramatically affect things if it makes any serious kind of headway above other CRT's or on any of the factory bikes...

[duccarlos]

Carmelo wants the manufacturers to have less input into the rules, so he'll force them to sell the teams the bikes instead of factory/satellite (lease) model. I believe this is similar to what is done in the US. Manufacturers don't actually run any teams, they just sell the equipment.