What's wrong with the GP11?

[Triple J]

^^

 

[Bill in OKC]

That pyramid is funny.  The article sounds like Ducati is killing sacred cows AND sacrificing performance at the same time.  I hope that moving MotoGP technology into their superbikes doesn't kill them in WSBK.

[desmoquattro]

Updated, to include input from Enzo...

[duccarlos]

I got through half the article before work got in the way. I will attempt to finish it tonight. Great read.

Up to this point, only the good things from the GP bike have been applied to the WSBK bike. I hope that they have put the year off to good use by working out any issues they might run into next year.

[zarn02]

Ducati Sticking To GP11.1 at Post-Brno Test

Ducati will continue to focus on development of its heavily revamped GP11.1 bike instead of testing its 2012 model at the test Monday, Aug. 15 at Brno the day after the Czech Republic Grand Prix, team manager Vittoriano Guareschi said.

Efforts will be focused on continued refinement of the electronics of the bike, Guareschi said. Both Valentino Rossi and Nicky Hayden are scheduled to participate in the test.

Honda and Yamaha already have confirmed they will test 2012 1000cc bikes with their MotoGP riders at Brno.

Ducati already has used five of the eight days of 1000cc testing allowed with MotoGP riders this season. Honda has used two, Yamaha zero.

This will be the first public test of the 1000s. So either Ducati really wants to salvage something from its nightmarish 2011 season or doesn't want to be exposed as being behind its Japanese rivals with its 1000cc machine, too. Or both.

ENDS

[Goat_Herder]

Excellent read.  The article does a very good job of summarizing the issues and hypothesize on the cause(s).  It is surprising to know that the main characteristics, that make a Ducati a "Ducati" and brought the brand its racing success, are the main hindering factors for the current lack of success in GP11.  GP12 is shaping up to be a pivital year for the company (as if GP11 isn't one already).

[ducatiz]

Could be. Then again, the current L twins are tipped backwards a bit too.

The vertical cylinder has always been 11 deg.  The singles were 11 deg too.

[ducatiz]

Depicted graphically:

Those sacred cows were killed ages ago:

-no dry clutch
-no trellis
-no desmo
-no L twin, but it is a twin..
-no 90 deg

Also, the dry clutch on factory ducatis has only been around since 1985.  I hardly think that's a sacred anything.

[Raux]

and exactly how classic is that bike or how well was it received?

[gm2]

http://motomatters.com/news/2011/08/18/ducati_building_aluminium_chassis_as_par.html

[zarn02]

Shouldn't returning to a steel trellis be at least as much of an option as building a twin-spar aluminum frame, which they have no experience with?

[Raux]

Maybe the NCR Millona16 frame is the right solution

[OT]

Shouldn't returning to a steel trellis be at least as much of an option as building a twin-spar aluminum frame, which they have no experience with?

Ask Carlos Checa  

Perhaps it's easier to CAD/CAM the spar than research the characteristics of the trellis frames after they're welded together.  And, isn't the 4-cylinder engine wider than the two-cylinder engine?  Might require lots more stiffening/welding of the trellis where it bends/turns behind the head to wrap around the engine, which would constrain/defeat the purpose of engineering flexibility into the frame ahead of the engine.

[zooom]

Perhaps it's easier to CAD/CAM the spar than research the characteristics of the frames after they're welded together.  And, isn't the 4-cylinder engine wider than the two-cylinder engine?  Might require lots more stiffening/welding of the trellis where it bends afer the head to wrap around the engine.

the origional purpose for going away from the trellis was to gain more airbox room which the trellis to the head constricted...problem solved by making the frame be an airbox as well as the other portions of duty it is doing....they also used different diameter and thickness of tubing for the GP bikes over the SBK's...tuning the flex just as much so with those charachteristics in mind...

[OT]

they also used different diameter and thickness of tubing for the GP bikes over the SBK's...tuning the flex just as much so with those charachteristics in mind...

You're saying the flexibility in the/a MotoGP trellis frame can be tuned as finely as, say, a designed spar?