You're too stupid to... own a diesel small truck

[ducatiz]

Technically, yes. But as in the DMV form, once the conversion is done it is smog EXEMPT. Many people have done this with earlier motors, and were fine. Do some searches for 'Diesel conversion in CA Toyota'. Many have done it with earlier motors and been fine. Have you been to a Referee before? I knew one by first name in High School trying to get my Bradley Kit car(VW based) registered. All the ref cares is what the DMV wants to know: Is it a diesel or isn't it? Is it a CAR with a CAR engine or a TRUCK with a TRUCK engine. It is only a visual inspection here in CA to confirm that it is a diesel conversion, and not someone trying to get a free ride without a smog check. Same as when my stepdad registered the electric pickup we built. They just wanted to see under the hood to make sure it was being registered as what it was. Look at the form link that I provided. The provision is that any pre 98 vehicle can be EXEMPT from smog if it is converted to Electric, Diesel or 'Other' fuel. The provision is there because people generally want to do a diesel conversion to run on veggie oil/Biodiesel. They don't care beyond the facts of it.

That's interesting and useful to know. 

The federal law is very specific about conversions, but since there is no obligation to have it inspected for the EPA, then it is up to the state to allow or disallow it. 

I've wanted a Jeep CJ with a diesel ...  Never made any sense to me to only sell Jeeps in gasoline.

[DRKWNG]

I'd toss kittens into traffic all day long for a diesel JK Unlimited.

[suzyj]

You yanks are funny.

My work is about 350 km out of town in the Australian outback. To get there we have a mix of Toyota Landcruisers, Mitsubishi Triton utes, and the odd Toyota Prado. All turbo diesel. With the exception of the landbarges (4.5 l V8 dual turbo) they all get good fuel economy.

If you show up out there with a petrol vehicle looking for fuel, you're outta luck. Everything runs on diesel - vehicles, generators, everything.

Back home my car is a Peugeot 307 1.6 l turbo diesel, which gets 4 l/100km on the open road.

[JohnEE]

I'd toss kittens into traffic all day long for a diesel JK Unlimited.

I'd toss puppies and kittens into traffic for a turbo diesel Taco.

You yanks are funny.

My work is about 350 km out of town in the Australian outback. To get there we have a mix of Toyota Landcruisers, Mitsubishi Triton utes, and the odd Toyota Prado. All turbo diesel. With the exception of the landbarges (4.5 l V8 dual turbo) they all get good fuel economy.

If you show up out there with a petrol vehicle looking for fuel, you're outta luck. Everything runs on diesel - vehicles, generators, everything.

Back home my car is a Peugeot 307 1.6 l turbo diesel, which gets 4 l/100km on the open road.

Damn EPA/CARB, This is where regulation does more harm than good.....Let the market decide!

[ducpainter]

...and this is where I'll insert a friendly reminder that this is getting political.

[ducatiz]

I'd toss kittens into traffic all day long for a diesel JK Unlimited.

Rumors of it coming after 2014 refresh

with a 2.8 CRD i4

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/27/jeep-grand-cherokee-wrangler-unlimited-diesel-first-drive/

[duc_fan]

Have you modded your Duramax at all?  Ive got an 06 LBZ.  Gets 22 mph on the highway.  Intake, exhaust and stage 3 hypertech.

Wish I was getting 22 on the highway!

Mine gets 16ish in mixed highway/city driving.  Did manage to break 17 on the last tank.  It's only got 12500 miles on it though... and hasn't lived a hard life, so it's definitely not broken in yet.  I loaned it to my dad this weekend so he could haul his 22' travel trailer over the Cascades for a camping trip... I figure a little work will help with the break-in.

No real mods yet.  It's leveled, has slightly bigger BFG AT T/As on it.  I had a Line-X bedliner sprayed in when it was new.  It's a farm & ranch truck, so it gets all sorts of crap thrown in the bed (firewood, rocks, auto parts, tractor implements, etc).  I love tossing stuff in and not having to worry about it.  I am a *little* careful with the heavy metal objects so as not to scrape the coating off, but that's about all I have to worry about.

I want to do the DPF delete.  We live on 600 acres that is mostly grassland... and we're getting into fire season.  A regen while out in the fields checking fences is potentially disastrous.  The Forest Service tested DPF-equipped rigs, and the DPF outlet gets up to 1000*F during regen.  Major fire hazard.  If I lived in the city, I'd leave it, because it's nice to have no visible emissions.  But, I weigh the emissions from the truck against the potential emissions, property damage, risk to livestock, and risk to humans of a wildfire, and it's no contest.  The truck has plenty of grunt and I am quite happy with it, so the "tuner" would only be used to delete the DPF.  No power tunes.  The most I might do it test the "mild" setting for fuel economy.

Other mods: I am planning to do a BuckStop bumper + winch when funds allow.  And I'd like to add an LED utility light or two on the rear for backing up at night.  Then maybe some auxiliary long-range driving lights... I have to commute home in the dark in winter, and there are a lot of deer out here.

[ungeheuer]

<snip...... >....Let the market decide!

IMO this is what actually is occurring.  

Your comment about local EPA regs seems to imply that's the only reason you don't get such vehicles.....  Pretty sure Europe has some stringent exhaust emission requirements, yet that continent is swarming with these diesel powered vehicles.

I said it before with my flippant comment about the cost of fuel.... In USA fuel is so inexpensive that there's no market driven incentive for manufacturers to make available their diesel variants - they've probably concluded they wouldn't sell in sufficient numbers to make it worth their while.   In most of the rest of the world the equation is the inverse:  Fun though a big burbling petrol V8 is, they wouldn't be able to give away large capacity gas powered vehicles coz of the prohibitive running costs.

[Triple J]

I said it before with my flippant comment about the cost of fuel.... In USA fuel is so inexpensive that there's no market driven incentive for manufacturers to make available their diesel variants - they've probably concluded they wouldn't sell in sufficient numbers to make it worth their while.   In most of the rest of the world the equation is the inverse:  Fun though a big burbling petrol V8 is, they wouldn't be able to give away large capacity gas powered vehicles coz of the prohibitive running costs.

The diesel variants of the VW models are their best sellers...at least here in Seattle. I don't think our lack of diesels is related to consumer demand...we would buy them.

[ducatiz]

IMO this is what actually is occurring. 

Your comment about local EPA regs seems to imply that's the only reason you don't get such vehicles.....  Pretty sure Europe has some stringent exhaust emission requirements, yet that continent if swarming with these diesel powered vehicles.

CARB diesel regs for soot are more stringent than EuroV proposed regs.

Also, EU synth diesel gets cetane ratings of over 65.  40 is a tandard in the USA and therefore....sootier.

[duc_fan]

That's the problem... EU regs, while stringent in their own ways, are *different* from the US regs.

It's just not cost-effective to build multiple versions of every engine certified for different regulatory environments.

Since gas is cheaper in the US and the diesel vehicle market smaller, the majority of regulatory testing and certification is done for those other markets.

It may change, slowly.  A huge chunk of VW's sales are diesel.  Over a quarter now, IIRC.  GM is now getting in on the act with the diesel Cruze.

Now if we could just get those sales to translate to diesel development for compact, midsize, and half-ton trucks.

[ducatiz]

In its form as used in Europe, it's Euro VI complaint.

The Fiat-made Chevy Cruze diesel engine is the same as the european model with the exception of urea injection for the exhaust.

This means a 4.5 gallon loss of trunk space for the Cruze to provide for the urea tank.  There are some minor upgrades to the motor to suit US style driving, namely fast-start glow plugs and an oil pan heater, but it is otherwise identical.

If they'd put in a CVT tranny instead of a regular auto it probably could get >50 mpg.

[JohnEE]

Not the only reason, but as stated before in this thread. The entry cost of bringing a new engine to the USA market AND the price(2k-3k option for the turbo diesel in the new jeep/ram i believe) of choosing that engine instead of the regular gas variant sorta entrenches the choice of gasoline engines here. So while the diesel get better MPGs than a typical gas V6 you need to put ALOT of miles to make that initial investment back( at least here)

Some quick math for a SR5 HiLux 4x4 DCAB Manual (The world tacoma styling..... , I like the NA styling better) I used $3.5 for regular gas and $3.8 for the oil burner stuff(avg around here)(numbers from the toyota.au site)

I4 Turbo Diesel
126kw/343Nm
8.3L/100km or 28.37mpg
Cost of fuel for 100k miles = $13,394

V6 Petrol (Probably same engine as over here)
175kw/343Nm
13.1L/100km or 17.96mpg
Cost of fuel for 100k miles = $19,487

So even if they charge extra for the diesel engine( < $6,093 for my example) you still make out on the plus side of the equation.

...and this is where I'll insert a friendly reminder that this is getting political.

Sorry, DP. I didn't mean too, the thread sorta lends itself to discussing the regulators.

Also now, are diesels in the EU as clean(emission wise) as a standard petrol(watching too much Top Gear lately, damn Brits!) engine? As gas is a finite resource and so is the atmosphere.......just some food for thought.....

[ducatiz]

FYI as of July 1, 2012, if you own a diesel for non-commercial use under 10,000 lbs in Virginia, you can get a refund of the state tax on diesel (currently 20.2 c per gallon).

That makes the cost of fuel very competitive with gasoline.

Oh, and the VA legislature just passed a $65/year fee for registrations on gasoline hybrids.. lol.

[duc_fan]

If they'd put in a CVT tranny instead of a regular auto it probably could get >50 mpg.

<shrugs> meh, gimme a manual.

Easier to hyper-mile. 

That... and we had a CVT in our 2011 Subaru Outback... the driving dynamics *sucked*.  A regular geared auto is nicer to drive, IMO.  Regardless, I would prefer a manual either way.

These guys used the 6-speed Passat TDI to get phenomenal mileage in a cross-country trip (77.99 mpg):
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47780
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/volkswagen-passat-tdir-clean-diesel-sets-world-record-for-fuel-economy-around-the-lower-48-us-states-at-7799-mpg-2013-06-24