You're too stupid to... own a diesel small truck

[Monsterlover]

I have read of Duramax getting upwards of +50MPG using CNG or propane injection.

Where?

That would make me want one even more!

[Duck-Stew]

I have read of Duramax getting upwards of +50MPG using CNG or propane injection.

+1

[LowThudd]

Where?

That would make me want one even more!

Diesel performance magazine(I think). There was an article on a diesel truck competition where pulling power, speed as well as efficiency were all judged. I'll look for the mag and see if I can scan it. Can't find it now, but you can probably get more info online. Of course, the MPG was the diesel alone, you would have to figure the cost of the gas inclusively to get get real world efficiency.

[ducatiz]

Its a truck.  If 1/3rd of the bed is unusable then its worthless.

 The mpg comparison with carry volume as a variable.  everything wins over cng with that turd in the bed.

[Howie]

Actually, CNG has a notable performance advantage when it the engine is built to take advantage of the higher octane, lower particulate pollution and an advatage in carbon foot print.   CNG failed last time in NYC due to fuel infrastructure.  No fuel is good if not reasonably easy to find.  Cruising range and reduced cargo capacity because of the tank are problematic, though the last CNG Crown Vic police cars weren't bad.  Ford  designed dedicated tanks for them that provided enough cruising range for a shift and some with decent trunk space.  Between lack of fuel infrastructure and diesel torque I would stick with diesel at this point.   

[ducatiz]

Actually, CNG has a notable performance advantage when it the engine is built to take advantage of the higher octane, lower particulate pollution and an advatage in carbon foot print.   CNG failed last time in NYC due to fuel infrastructure.  No fuel is good if not reasonably easy to find.  Cruising range and reduced cargo capacity because of the tank are problematic, though the last CNG Crown Vic police cars weren't bad.  Ford  designed dedicated tanks for them that provided enough cruising range for a shift and some with decent trunk space.  Between lack of fuel infrastructure and diesel torque I would stick with diesel at this point.   

For livery and police vehicles, cng should do just fine, but for a truck where torque is a key feature for ooad hauling....diesel all the way

Although that new purpose built police car?  Diesel.

[Howie]

For livery and police vehicles, cng should do just fine, but for a truck where torque is a key feature for ooad hauling....diesel all the way

Although that new purpose built police car?  Diesel.

Yes, true, if using a gasoline engine.  CNG conversion running 20% diesel is quite impressive.  It was done on some NYC garbage trucks.  Yes, I have seen the results, though no dyno or racetrack results.  This is a kit, http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0905dp_natruell_cng_conversion_kit/viewall.html  Imagine something engineered from scratch.  The fact that you coulnd't get from coast to coast wit a CNG powered vehicle  is still a problem though.  You would need LPG to do make that voyage.  http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/natural_gas_locations.html

[ducatiz]

Thats pretty slick but for the loss of cargo space.  If someone designed a purpose built one for dual fuel it might be worth it.

[DesmoDiva]

The extra $85-9500 for install of the aftermarket CNG kit is what makes it unattractive to me. 

[duc_fan]

Yowsers... Yeah, I wouldn't drop north of $8 grand on such a kit, at least not as a supplemental fuel on my diesel.  Diesel engines don't run so well on straight CNG or propane... in a compression-ignition engine, it's better as a booster.  It substitutes for some of the diesel fuel, and helps the diesel that is used burn more thoroughly, resulting in cleaner exhaust.

Like others have said, that 50+ mpg figure is the diesel fuel economy... you're burning some quantity of CNG or propane along with that, so you gotta factor that cost into the equation.

The propane add-on kits for the Duramax are a lot cheaper than $8500 bucks.  You can get the regulator setup for $300-$550, then you need tanks and hose.  If you wanna go cheap, just mount a couple of 10-gallon RV tanks in the bed.  On the Duramax forum earlier this year, there was a user selling a complete kit with a 10-gallon in-bed tank for $600.  For more $$$, you can put a motor-vehicle tank under the bed along the frame.  IIRC, propane is lower BTU per unit of fuel than CNG, but users have reported diesel mileage in the high 20's to low 30's.  Where things get expensive is using a DOT-approved motor vehicle CNG tank mounted under the vehicle.  Anyway... you can do propane quite a bit cheaper.  The question is whether it's worth it.  I have yet to see actual total cost/mile calculations done.

Maybe if I get a bonus next year my wife will let me drop a grand and do this as an "experiment".    If we can push the diesel mileage up to 30 or so and decrease our total cost/mile enough, I may drive the Silverado to the office more often.  It would also be nice to have less soot in the exhaust.  I don't like stinking up my garage.  The tractor is bad enough. 

Speaking of reducing cost/mile... I still gotta try making biodiesel with the little home-brew test kit I bought.  If I can find a used oil source out here in the sticks, I could have very cheap fuel for the truck.

[Howie]

Yes, the hot set up is 20% diesel, not the full conversion.  No, I do not suggest anyone does the conversion on their truck.  I'm just saying CNG for a truck in the future can be viable, particularly if there was a viable infrastructure for getting fuel and OEM trucks with reasonable fuel capacity and sufficient cargo space at a reasonable cost.  NYC was an example of how not to do this.  One, yes one fueling station in the whole Bronx.

[WarrenJ]

Remember, if you try making biodiesel, heat is your friend.  Some of the literature says the reaction will work in the 70 to 80 F range but North of 100 is definitely better.  Also check the pH of your rinse water to determine if it actually has the capacity to reduce the pH of the residual NaOH in the mix.  A guy asked me to help him get a system going, but his rinse water already had a pH of 9 so rinsing with it to get the mix down to 7 wasn't going to work. They were rinsing for days and couldn't understand why the pH wouldn't come down.  Also the polypropylene tanks he was trying to use couldn't handle the heat that the reaction should occur at.  He couldn't understand either of those concepts so it never got off the ground.  He was trying to produce biodiesel for his septic pumping service trucks.  He had great sources for waste oil and the equipment to handle it in bulk - would have been nice to get it up and running.  I really wanted to try it in my Jeep Liberty Diesel - also interested to see if it would work in my fuel oil furnace. 

[Greg]

Looks like Nissan is officially joining Dodge in offering a 1/2 ton diesel. I'm a bit surprised it is a 5L V8 though

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-20/nissan-to-offer-cummins-diesel-engine-for-titan-pickup.html

[Randimus Maximus]

Looks like Nissan is officially joining Dodge in offering a 1/2 ton diesel. I'm a bit surprised it is a 5L V8 though

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-20/nissan-to-offer-cummins-diesel-engine-for-titan-pickup.html

That is interesting.

My understanding that they were previously working with CAT, who is now shopping that motor around.

However, I'm not sure how that is going to make much financial sense.  Through July, only 10,020 Titans have been retailed this year.  By comparison, over 60K F-Series, 58K Silverado/Sierra, 31K Ram P/U and 9,820 Tundra were sold last month alone!.

[mitt]

That is interesting.

My understanding that they were previously working with CAT, who is now shopping that motor around.

However, I'm not sure how that is going to make much financial sense.  Through July, only 10,020 Titans have been retailed this year.  By comparison, over 60K F-Series, 58K Silverado/Sierra, 31K Ram P/U and 9,820 Tundra were sold last month alone!.

The titan was supposed to die and a new version based on the new ram truck was in the works right before the recession.  Due to Chrysler's finances, Nissan pulled out of the partnership. 

Makes sense that they are interested again.

mitt