You're too stupid to... own a diesel small truck

[ducatiz]

My 2010 jetta tdi regularly gets 40 mpg in my mixed hiway/city driving and 50 mpg on the highway.

Diesel is 2.79 locally, and regular gas is 2,12.  Virginia rebates half of the state diesel tax for personal use, which knocks off another 15c per gallon.

a comparable gas car getting that mileage could not produce the performance curve I like. 

I drive somewhat "spiritedly" and still pull 36-38 mpg in city only driving.  And that's with an occasional burn out lol.

Fix the taxing regime on gas vs diesel and the debate will end.

My emissions inspection this year should immeasurable particulates...

[Zaster]

I'm not an expert when it comes to comparing US vs. EU diesel fuel.
The biggest problem in Germany is the fine dust issue caused by
diesel engines which seems to be a major concern for cancer
causing agents.

[Triple J]

I'm not an expert when it comes to comparing US vs. EU diesel fuel.
The biggest problem in Germany is the fine dust issue caused by
diesel engines which seems to be a major concern for cancer
causing agents.

I believe that's because the EU only adopted the stricter emissions standards in 2011 or 2012...so most of your diesels on the road aren't as clean as the new standards mandate.

[Howie]

Also a notably higher percentage of the fleet is diesel.

[herm]

The current emission equipment required for US diesels, and recently European diesels, is a real pain in the ass. The requirements of the diesel particulate filter in particular really impact how they operate and their efficiency. The Urea injection systems are more just a pain in the ass. Nevermind the cost, as the guy in the article mentions. Hopefully the systems become less of an issue as the manufacturers get better and making them.

My department has two 2012 Duramax diesel ambulance with the Urea injection system. We have had ZERO (Urea system/particulate collection system) issues with these vehicles, and they are on the road 24/7. The vehicle computer reminds you when you need to replace the stuff, and you do. There really is no pain in the ass.

Edit: No idea on mpg, but these trucks (van cab & chassis ) will scoot right down the road.

[Kev M]

My department has two 2012 Duramax diesel ambulance with the Urea injection system. We have had ZERO (Urea system/particulate collection system) issues with these vehicles, and they are on the road 24/7. The vehicle computer reminds you when you need to replace the stuff, and you do. There really is no pain in the ass.

It's probably less of a pia when you're not the one paying for the DEF, and they are running enough the REGEN cycles don't happen at inconvenient times.

[herm]

It's probably less of a pia when you're not the one paying for the DEF, and they are running enough the REGEN cycles don't happen at inconvenient times.

While I don't have to pay for the stuff, It's not THAT expensive. I do have to go get it when its needed, and refill it. No bigger of a PITA than any other fluid in a vehicle. And they give PLENTY of warning before you run out. In fact, I suspect that most passenger vehicles could be refilled at regular oil change intervals. As for the regen cycle...they happen when they happen. No noticeable issue/performance loss.

[Kev M]

Thing is on the GC owners have reported failures with the systems that caused limp home mode. And the cost of DEF eats into the benefit of mileage.

[herm]

Thing is on the GC owners have reported failures with the systems that caused limp home mode. And the cost of DEF eats into the benefit of mileage.

What is the GC?

I'm just relating my own experience.

We were pretty worried about it too, at first. The department came up with all sorts of protocol/policy/plans for what to do if an ambulance went into limp mode while on an emergency call (which was stupid, as we already had plans in place for the older trucks if a breakdown occurred.) To date, there have been zero related problems with the new trucks.

[Kev M]

Grand Cherokee with the Morini diesel.

[Triple J]

It isn't the cost of the DEF...that's pretty insignificant IMO.

The problem is 1) the sensors (NOx) seem to fail fairly often, leading to trips to the dealer...the dreaded Exhaust Fluid Quality error. Google it...common across all models. Often they don't have them in stock, so you're out a week or two. Would be terrible if you're on a road trip and get stuck in limp mode when in reality the truck is perfectly fine; 2) you can't control the regen process. I don't want total control, just the ability to start it whenever makes sense, like when I'm going to be on the freeway for 20+ miles. It seems the f'ing cycle starts right when I finish a long freeway run, and will be doing town driving for the next week. It then takes 2 days of town driving to complete the cycle, and with town driving the cycle isn't done correctly anyway. It's just a stupid system. How about run when needed, but also allow the driver to run when convenient. Also, DEF cycles every 200 miles isn't uncommon. Frustrating.

Mine is a 2011. Maybe the 2012 is better.

[Kev M]

Insignificant? Maybe, but that's subjective.

Bottom line it all adds up to greatly reduce or eliminate any savings in efficiency.

1. Significantly higher initial cost.
2. Higher cost of maintenance.
3. Higher cost of fuel.
4. Potentially less convenience in everything from finding fuel to parts, service, and even day-to-day operation from regen cycles to dealing with extreme cold spells.

This can all equal an ROI that takes greater than 100k miles (or more) to just break even with petrol counterparts.

So bottom line there are some strong forces working against small diesels in the US marketplace.

[ducatiz]

Meanwhile, VW/Audi/MB/BMW can't keep them in stock because they sell as fast as they show up, and Chevy is doubling the number of diesel Cruzes.

[Kev M]

Meanwhile, VW/Audi/MB/BMW can't keep them in stock because they sell as fast as they show up, and Chevy is doubling the number of diesel Cruzes.

And these mean what in terms of overall US car and truck sales percentages?

Honest question.

Can't keep them in stock just means there's more supply them demand. But that didn't mean there is a significant demand.

[Kev M]

Answered my own question, 3% and that could double by 2018.

http://www.dieselforum.org/news/u-s-clean-diesel-car-sales-increase-25-in-2014-overall-u-s-car-market-is-up-4-

" While diesel cars and pickup trucks make up only three percent of the overall U.S. vehicle market, most analysts predict continued growth in the U.S., with many believing the diesel market will double by 2018.”