You're too stupid to... own a diesel small truck

[herm]

It isn't the cost of the DEF...that's pretty insignificant IMO.

The problem is 1) the sensors (NOx) seem to fail fairly often, leading to trips to the dealer...the dreaded Exhaust Fluid Quality error. Google it...common across all models. Often they don't have them in stock, so you're out a week or two. Would be terrible if you're on a road trip and get stuck in limp mode when in reality the truck is perfectly fine; 2) you can't control the regen process. I don't want total control, just the ability to start it whenever makes sense, like when I'm going to be on the freeway for 20+ miles. It seems the f'ing cycle starts right when I finish a long freeway run, and will be doing town driving for the next week. It then takes 2 days of town driving to complete the cycle, and with town driving the cycle isn't done correctly anyway. It's just a stupid system. How about run when needed, but also allow the driver to run when convenient. Also, DEF cycles every 200 miles isn't uncommon. Frustrating.

Mine is a 2011. Maybe the 2012 is better.

Are you also referring to the Grand Cherokee?

Regardless, I can only speak for the Duramax powered ambulance that I am assigned for 2 or 3 24 hour shifts per week. Obviously. my experience across the spectrum of new "clean" diesel technology is limited...

[Popeye the Sailor]

Meanwhile, VW/Audi/MB/BMW can't keep them in stock because they sell as fast as they show up, and Chevy is doubling the number of diesel Cruzes.

I'm not going to allow you to use the American public purchasing patterns as an example that a technology is in some way the direction we should be going in.

Did you forget the pet rock? 

[ducatiz]

I'm not going to allow you to use the American public purchasing patterns as an example that a technology is in some way the direction we should be going in.

Did you forget the pet rock? 

The question I replied to was about market penetration, so yes, American public purchasing patterns is a good topic.

[MendoDave]

There are rocks that need petting?

[ducatiz]

Also.. Just a thought..  My mechanic in Fredericksburg tows cars and trucks with his Jetta TDI.

It's a 2004 model and has 550,000 miles on the original engine.  All he's done is the scheduled maintenance and replaced the injectors and the glow plugs.

[Triple J]

Are you also referring to the Grand Cherokee?

Regardless, I can only speak for the Duramax powered ambulance that I am assigned for 2 or 3 24 hour shifts per week. Obviously. my experience across the spectrum of new "clean" diesel technology is limited...

No, Duramax is my experience. You see the same complaints about Ford & Dodge trucks as well.

No comment on the small diesels either...their systems may work better than the large diesels.

[Kev M]

Also.. Just a thought..  My mechanic in Fredericksburg tows cars and trucks with his Jetta TDI.

It's a 2004 model and has 550,000 miles on the original engine.  All he's done is the scheduled maintenance and replaced the injectors and the glow plugs.

And that's before all this emissions crap.

Not to mention I can come up a Harley that's done as many miles without a rebuild... Does that mean all will or there is something about the owner/maintenance pattern/usage pattern etc. that makes it an exception?

[ducatiz]

And that's before all this emissions crap.

Not to mention I can come up a Harley that's done as many miles without a rebuild... Does that mean all will or there is something about the owner/maintenance pattern/usage pattern etc. that makes it an exception?

It is a combination of design and maintenance.

A harley engine will never do 500,000 miles, you can fill it with unicorn fart oil and sacrifice a virgin and it won't.  they aren't designed for longevity.

i don't mean a blueprinted, static and dynamically balanced engine with SFL coating and such, I mean one that's rolled off the factory line and maintenance done according to schedule.

[Kev M]

I'll have to check for a link tomorrow. I know I've personally seen 200k Harleys with no rebuild. And there was a 1M mile one, but that was rebuilt like every 100k... But I thought the 500k one wasn't ... Could be remembering wrong though.

My point is that MOST vehicles have the potential for far more miles than they ever survive.

When an example surfaces it's hardly proof of uber-engineering.

[herm]

I'll have to check for a link tomorrow. I know I've personally seen 200k Harleys with no rebuild. And there was a 1M mile one, but that was rebuilt like every 100k... But I thought the 500k one wasn't ... Could be remembering wrong though.

My point is that MOST vehicles have the potential for far more miles than they ever survive.

When an example surfaces it's hardly proof of uber-engineering.

I agree with this, with the exception that here in the Northeast there is an evil triad of road salters, car dealers, and ethanol sellers that create an almost insurmountable barrier to vehicle longevity....

[Popeye the Sailor]

I agree with this, with the exception that here in the Northeast there is an evil triad of road salters, car dealers, and ethanol sellers that create an almost insurmountable barrier to vehicle longevity....

Well yeah-rust is common-I don't see the point of a long lived engine in the rust belt-it's going to die just as quick as a gasoline motor.

[ducatiz]

I'll have to check for a link tomorrow. I know I've personally seen 200k Harleys with no rebuild. And there was a 1M mile one, but that was rebuilt like every 100k... But I thought the 500k one wasn't ... Could be remembering wrong though.

My point is that MOST vehicles have the potential for far more miles than they ever survive.

When an example surfaces it's hardly proof of uber-engineering.

I would be curious to see a 200k harley that wasn't re-engineered.  I'd be very shocked to see a pushrod engine going that long.

Not that it's proof of "uber engineering" but a modern engine designed in the 21st century has more a chance of lasting longer than an engine originally designed in the early 1900s.  Surely, HD has gone in and done what they can, but they don't sell their bikes based on engineering...

[Triple J]

Diesels definitely have a longer life cycle than gas. People quickly snatch up used 2500 & 3500 diesel pickups with 100,000+ miles, and they go for a relatively high price. Good luck selling the same truck with a gas motor.

Whether it is worth the investment is a different question, and depends on the intended use.

[MendoDave]

Hauling a load like a big trailer for instance makes it worth it. The fuel milage you get with a Diesel compared to something like a ford with a V10 is very noticeable.

[Kev M]

I would be curious to see a 200k harley that wasn't re-engineered.  I'd be very shocked to see a pushrod engine going that long.

Not that it's proof of "uber engineering" but a modern engine designed in the 21st century has more a chance of lasting longer than an engine originally designed in the early 1900s.  Surely, HD has gone in and done what they can, but they don't sell their bikes based on engineering...

What design features make a motor 21st century?

OHC? no.

VVT? no.

DI?



Pushrods in and of themselves don't make a motor less reliable or long lived. It's about overbuilding and under stressing a motor. It's about putting it in the right application.

One thing Harleys and diesels have in common is low rpm operation thanks to high torque in that range. That can help with longevity.

Of course the quickest way to make a Harley less reliable is to start hot rodding it.