EV Charging Station Costs

Started by Drjones, September 09, 2011, 05:53:06 AM

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Drunken Monkey

I think large numbers of humans doing anything involving large amounts of kilowatt hours of power is going to make the beast with two backs up the planet.

Solar is great, but frighteningly overpriced. It's a cute solution for folks who want to appear to be "green"

Coal make the beast with two backss up the environment before it's even burned, then we actually burn it and it gets worse.

Nuclear is awesome. Except nobody wants the waste and the factories are built by humans who cut corners

Natural gas. Not bad with a co-gen plant. Except coal is cheaper so we don't want that either.

Wind? Too ugly so the nimbys don't like it. I suppose you could put them out to sea, or something. Again, coal is "cheaper" plus wind just isn't predictable. Nor is wind going to be any more predictable what with all the man-made climate change...

Blah blah blah.

Clearly we can't fix the 'large amounts of kilowatt hours' part of this equation.

Might I offer a modest proposal to deal with the 'large numbers of humans' problem  [evil] ?
I own several motorcycles. I have owned lots of motorcycles. And have bolted and/or modified lots of crap to said motorcycles...

ducatiz

Don't forget about putting solar cells in low orbit and beaming the energy down with a MASER.



Just.... don't aim it in the wrong place.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Mother

found my old skin suit

Buckethead

Quote from: Drunken Monkey on September 09, 2011, 08:53:04 PM
Might I offer a modest proposal to deal with the 'large numbers of humans' problem  [evil] ?

Personally, I think that with the right diet, we'd be delicious.

Just sayin'.

Quote from: Jacob on September 09, 2011, 11:17:53 PM
Turn off the switch

Already there.  [thumbsup]
Quote from: Jester on April 11, 2013, 07:29:35 AM
I can't wait until Marquez gets on his level and makes Jorge trip on his tampon string. 

Speedbag

Quote from: Drunken Monkey on September 09, 2011, 08:53:04 PM
I suppose you could put them out to sea, or something.


The generators, or the nimbys?
I tend to regard most of humanity as little more than walking talking dilated sphincters. - Rat

ducatiz

I don't see any reason that electric vehicles for urban use shouldn't be very common IF people want them.  It would be a lot easier to set up recharging stations at various places rather than having gas stations.

But then I think about a place like New York City -- there are very few parking lots.  Plenty of parking garages that charge you assrape prices (we paid $500/month to park the old Volvo) but those places park cars pell-mell and stuff them in anyway they can, so no easy way to put in charging stations (suspended from the ceiling??)

Likewise, most residents in the city who own a car park on the street wherever they can.  Outer borough residents may park in a garage that is part of their building (condo/apt building) but those are not the norm.  Few people drive to get groceries in NYC

On the other hand, a city like LA has a lot of FLAT parking.  People drive everywhere there and there are plenty of public parking facilities -- for pay or free.  Most everyone drives to get groceries, etc.

I am a big fan of having plenty of options out there as well -- there is a dealer nearby me who sells the ZENN NEV cars and a few people have picked them up for toodling around town.  Seems to me that fuel distribution is a huge reason we won't see pure ethanol cars being sold (as in Brazil) alongside gas and diesel cars -- a shame, Ethanol is good for small engines in cars designed for it.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

krolik

Quote from: Jacob on September 09, 2011, 11:33:00 AM
I would kick babies into traffic for an 89 dollar a month fuel bill

You'd kick babies into traffic for a Klondike bar. [evil]
'03 M800 "not so dark" Dark, Remus high pipes, Cycle Cat clipons & frame sliders, CRG lanesplitter mirrors, Sargent seat, tail chop, Nichols flywheel, modified & powdercoated rearsets, 15/44 gearing, 520 chain & sprockets, TPO Beast pod filters, Power Comander III. 72.95 Rear Wheel HP & 54.29 ft-lbs!

Quote from: SacDucNo. I'm a different type of idiot altogether.

muskrat

#22
A diesel at 40 mpg versus a gas hybrid at 55 mpg will take about 6 years to pay off.  My numbers are as follows:
price of fuel:     Diesel - $4.25     Gas $3.60
oil change:       Diesel - 10,000    Gas 10,000
Cost of Engine: Diesel - $3,000   Hybrid $5,000
Miles drive:  12,000 per year
Fuel differential for Diesel is about $500 per year in increase cost.

I did not factor in the premium price for a hybrid and did not take into account any tax credit.  For me, the hybrid is a terrible buy personally considering the MPG's listed are not real world conditions.  I also don't live in a 10,000 square foot house and "pretend" to be green.  ;D

Drunken Monkey makes a great point about coal.  It's very inefficient yet those selling battery cars pretend they are doing less to harm the environment.    [laugh]  To each their own of course but seriously most of our energy is coal and the loss of efficiency from the conversion of coal to energy is huge.
Can we thin the gene pool? 

2015 MTS 1200
09 Electra Glide

ducatiz

Quote from: muskrat on September 10, 2011, 08:15:46 AM
A diesel at 40 mpg versus a gas hybrid at 55 mpg will take about 6 years to pay off.  My numbers are as follows:
price of fuel:     Diesel - $4.25     Gas $3.60
oil change:       Diesel - 10,000    Gas 10,000
Cost of Engine: Diesel - $3,000   Hybrid $5,000
Miles drive:  12,000 per year
Fuel differential for Diesel is about $500 per year in increase cost.

Wait until they bring the diesel hybrids.  I don't love the concept of a hybrid car because I prefer simplicity, at least as simple as can be done.  BEV cars are simple, as are MFI diesels with some sort of catalyst.


QuoteDrunken Monkey makes a great point about coal.  It's very inefficient yet those selling battery cars pretend they are doing less to harm the environment.    [laugh]  To each their own of course but seriously most of our energy is coal and the loss of efficiency from the conversion of coal to energy is huge.

Coal generation is about 30-35% efficient.  Gas/oil generation runs about 30%.  Nuclear about 2%.  Of course these numbers vary, but part of the reason coal is popular is that it is cheap to procure.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Randimus Maximus

Quote from: ducatiz on September 10, 2011, 09:09:49 AM
Wait until they bring the diesel hybrids.  I don't love the concept of a hybrid car because I prefer simplicity, at least as simple as can be done.  BEV cars are simple, as are MFI diesels with some sort of catalyst.


A diesel hybrid doesn't make much sense in a passenger car/light truck application yet. 

If you take a look at a Ford or Toyota hybrid system (full hybrid) the electric motors (high torque) get the vehicle moving and then the gas engine (lower torque/higher horsepower) takes over.  The electric motors provide boosts when needed, such as for passing.

A diesel is low rpm/high torque, so it's really difficult to make that work with the conventional hybrids we have today.

If you're thinking along the lines of running the diesel as a generator (as they do in a locomotive) that would be a different story.

ducatiz

Quote from: Randimus Maximus on September 10, 2011, 09:17:26 AM
A diesel hybrid doesn't make much sense in a passenger car/light truck application yet. 

If you take a look at a Ford or Toyota hybrid system (full hybrid) the electric motors (high torque) get the vehicle moving and then the gas engine (lower torque/higher horsepower) takes over.  The electric motors provide boosts when needed, such as for passing.

A diesel is low rpm/high torque, so it's really difficult to make that work with the conventional hybrids we have today.

You must be thinking of a traditional style diesel.  Modern diesels have no problem keeping up with gas cars, and the handful of prototype diesel hybrids have shown amazing mileage. 

My Golf TDI performs best on the highway anyhow.  They just need to be geared properly.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Randimus Maximus

Quote from: ducatiz on September 10, 2011, 09:22:21 AM
You must be thinking of a traditional style diesel.  Modern diesels have no problem keeping up with gas cars, and the handful of prototype diesel hybrids have shown amazing mileage. 

My Golf TDI performs best on the highway anyhow.  They just need to be geared properly.


What would you gain by adding a hybrid system to a diesel?

ducatiz

Quote from: Randimus Maximus on September 10, 2011, 09:37:28 AM
What would you gain by adding a hybrid system to a diesel?

Personally, I'd say nothing because I like diesels straight up.  But using the gas/hybrid paradigm, one can swap the gas with a diesel and get far better fuel mileage. 

The VW and Volvo diesel prototypes got around 80-85 mpg.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Randimus Maximus

Quote from: ducatiz on September 10, 2011, 09:42:39 AM
The VW and Volvo diesel prototypes got around 80-85 mpg.

From what I could find on the interwebz, both of those are plug-in diesel hybrids.

And VW is releasing a Jetta Gas/Electric Hybrid next year.

ducatiz

Quote from: Randimus Maximus on September 10, 2011, 10:14:39 AM
From what I could find on the interwebz, both of those are plug-in diesel hybrids.

And VW is releasing a Jetta Gas/Electric Hybrid next year.

Yeah, the Volvo model is, but I don't see why that makes a difference -- they specifically tout the highway abilities of the 215hp diesel motor.  It's surprising they have such a high output motor in it.  My '98 S70T5 was the turbo model 2.2L gasser and it put out >230 hp with no mods. 

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.