Childless by choice...

[Popeye the Sailor]

Please read the last part of my first post. I said that I actually enjoy spending time with our friends and their families... and I do. Sure people move on and have different intersts in life... that's a normal occurance.

And you apparently resent them for it.

[mitt]

I'm only allowed to have 2 per sister wife.

You need 3 so we can get a better participation rate in the SS Ponzi scheme    I am at 2 w/ another on the way in November.

To the OP - I don't think you are being excluded from things.  I just think that in general most people w/ kids don't do much socially.

mitt (busy as heck)

[elyse]

ok here i go playing devils advocate again...

its not an us versus them issue... neither side should take it personally... loopsrider is just venting, unfortunately it was done in a bit of a "poke you with a stick" kind of way...

i think this post should just serve to remind those peeps with children to maybe be aware & a little more sensitive to your friends without them... and vice versa for the people without kids to be aware that their friends with kids have different priorities & interests...

it's kinda like having a friend when youre little you have everything in common then but you grow up & one of you is a nasa scientist & the other is a hand model lol... you no longer have much in common except your childhood but that doesnt mean you should stop caring about your friend & think that what they do is meaningless...

[elyse]

loopsrider, i totally get what youre saying about feeling excluded, but seriously try confronting your friends/family in a nice way & tell them it bothers you. many times people are just oblivious to the feelings of others or just assume you wouldnt be interested so fail to provide the invite...

[elyse]

it really is that simple.. when you use your voice, you have a voice & even if others dont comply, it makes you feel better

now im threadjacking... but one more thing...

im also like you loopsrider where i had family to take care of from a young age. my 2 nephews & niece came to live with me when i was only 20 & i had a huge part in helping to raise them growing up even before they lived with me. they are 9, 10 & 12 years younger than i am. you give up a lot of your own childhood when you get stuck in a position like that..

i admit that im selfish in the sense that i enjoy being able to get up & do whatever i want whenever i want without having to worry about childcare or dragging out half a bedroom worth of stuff to keep a baby entertained while we're going grocery shopping. i also like sleeping in on weekends & spending money on myself...but im aware of that selfishness, so in a way i think it's being selfless to not bring a kid into a situation where you are fully aware you wont give them all of the energy they deserve to have.

when people mention the selfish part i just point out all of the horrible parents. all of the kids growing up in dysfuntional environments that i know of (sadly there is so many) & highlight how selfish that is, people tend to shut up then

[Triple J]

Sounds like you're a little sensitive on the whole subject yourself....

Nope, not at all. Like I said, I get along with my friends regardless of who does or doesn't have kids. You're the one who started the thread...so I'd say you're the sensitive one here.

super dads competing for attention for their children [/color]

My blunt (but true) response was due to your insult above. You may backtrack and say it wasn't meant as an insult be we all know that is bullshit. There are quite a few ways to say the same thing without coming across as insulting, or at least condescending.

[ducatiz]

Ooooo internet fight

[elyse]

Ooooo internet fight

lol! instigator!! 

[slowpoke13]

I don't have kids (32). No desire or plan for them. But, I enjoy the hell out of kids that belong to friends of mine (one family specifically). We stay in touch. I'm included in events whenever I'm in town. I pick the rugrats up from school/daycare. And sit for them so the 'rents can go out and have an evening. I get pictures of them via text message weekly. I reply with pics of surfing, jeeping, sleeping in until 11am. We know our lives are different from before he was married w/ children. We embrace the difference and tease each other for it. I get my "kid" fix and he gets to live vicariously through my single life.

[Triple J]

I find someone leading threads in a completely different direction quite insulting too....

Then you should find a new board to hang out on. Threads tend to "drift" on the DMF. 

[Stella]

Damn. Still only on phone - tedious enough just typing this but great solo dinner time reading. thanks to all the 'rents out here posting instead of paying attention to your ankle biting dependents.

 

[il d00d]

First, sorry to hear about being laid up - get well soon.  Hopefully, you don't die of your injury.  Alone.  Selfish.  Childless...less...ees..es...s..s.





On the subject of selfishness, I would never say that living your life without having kids is selfish.  In many ways, having kids the most selfish thing you could possibly do.  But it just so happens that the most insufferably selfish people in my life don't have kids.  In other words not having kids does not result in you being selfish, but in my experience it has everything to do with why one would choose not to have children.  

I sense that my childless friends are a little resentful that I don't make more time to accommodate their lifestyle.  They dance around it, but never seem to come out and say it.  I think this is the third rail for people without kids - they don't dare challenge the sanctity of parenthood by suggesting their lifestyle is of equal significance with the married with kids.  Or whatever.  What they don't realize is that I don't give a shit nearly as much as I used to.  I still care about them, and want them to be happy, but I don't think they realize the amount of priority displacement that goes on once you start reproducing.   Do I want them to be happy?  I do.  Do I want to contribute to their happiness at the expense of family happiness?  Nope, make the beast with two backs that.  

Happiness of my friends now happens on a best-effort basis.  It is not something that makes me happy to admit, or to deal with.  I would say that parenthood has taught me a lot about my own limitations - I wish I could meet my standards for good parenting while maintaining a active social life, indulge myself in my hobbies, start up another degree plan, exercise as much as I want, etc.  I wish there were enough hours in the day to do all of these - I can only do about 1.5 of those things at a time and being a good parent is 1.0 of them.

My point is their conversation (and entire lives for that matter) don't completely have to revolve around kids. Sure it is a HUGE part of their lives... but talking about shitty diapers over drinks after dinner doesn't need to be the norm...

So, you're a little hurt your friends don't call you up, share family events with them more often.  But if they did, you would prefer the family event not be dominated by talk about family stuff?  

I think I understand what you are saying, but I don't think you realize how you sound.

[Stella]

 

[Triple J]

Points 1, 2, & 4 are perfectly valid.

3. People tend to talk about what is going on in their lives. Parents, especially ones with young children, usually don't have much else going on. Some, like myself, try not to bore people with stories of their children; however, it can be hard to keep from creeping in though.

5. Is your girlfriend being excluded...as in are the "mommies" doing motocross without her, or are they doing other child related things instead of motocross now? If it's the latter she probably isn't being shunned intentionally, its just that their interests have changed. Does she really want to go to a play date as an example?

[Popeye the Sailor]

I think you've  misunderstood a lot of my rant.



1/ I don't feel it is fair, and take offense to, people with children who feel the need to pressure childless couples to have children. Hearing insults such as "you're selfish" and pressure tactics by family members such as "You'll die alone" are maddening...

2/ The fact freinds do not include us in group family activities isn't a big deal at all... Most of the activities aren't really that intersting to me anyway.  When family members do not include us in activities it is pretty hurtful.

3/ The fact that every group dicussion (as proved in the first couple of pages) leads to discussion of children is kind of frustrating. Do you really want to hear childless couples talk about their lavish vacations and new posessions for an entire evening.

4/ The fact that siblings play the "kid card" to opt out on taking care of aging family members pisses me off to no end. According to my siblings I must have an endless bank account and can afford to take care of my mother without their help.

5/ The fact that mommies seem to shun childless women (as mentioned in my first post about my girlfriend and motocross) is bullshit. Perhaps we tend to surround ourselves with bad examples.

I may have missed it but I have not seen you mention that you've actually spoken to any of these people about their behaviour.

Have you?