Faster Monster's

[Andy55]

Big
I did wonder about that myself. Where is the weight difference... both bikes have very similar frame , similar wheels (ok mine is a slightly wider rear I believe? or is it just a wider tyre) , similar engine mass? or are the castings physically smaller on a 620 or do they just have more meat around the bores?  , gearbox I would imagine fairly similar , suspension , tank , ....etc etc etc
But no denying Mattys bike instantly feels lighter to just sit on and move around under you.
Then to jump back on mine , you can instantly feel a more solid mass of a bike under you.

Andy 

[Betty]

I also think there are other things at play here such as where the weight rests - and by that I mean the rider. I definitely feel like I am sitting higher and flatter on my S2R compared to the Boss' 620. Plus I am guessing Andy's clutch is heavier which could have a psychological effect on the way you feel you are working.

... and I don't think Matty is running a standard profile anymore?

[bigiain]

Big
I did wonder about that myself. Where is the weight difference... both bikes have very similar frame , similar wheels (ok mine is a slightly wider rear I believe? or is it just a wider tyre) , similar engine mass? or are the castings physically smaller on a 620 or do they just have more meat around the bores?  , gearbox I would imagine fairly similar , suspension , tank , ....etc etc etc

I'm not as familiar with newer bikes, but assuming things are similar to the '99 vintage I'm more informed about, I suspect you'll find that the frame and swingarm are identical (as in the exact same part number), the bigger bike runs a 1" wider rear wheel. The bodywork, electrics, controls, lights, front end etc are almost all the same, so probably 80 - 90% of the weight difference will be in the engine. The "small motors" (600s, 620s, 750s, and 800s) all run a smaller bolt pattern than the 900 and 1000cc motors, and I'm pretty sure that's also indicative of smaller case castings as well (rather than just different final machining). There's some external dimentions that are the same across big and small motors though, the engine mounts are all identical, the front sprockets end up in the same place. The bigger bores and longer strokes imply larger/heavier cylinders, pistons, rods, and crank, but I wouldn't expect a noticeable increase in the cylinder head weight, although those heads will be a little higher up, which might make them _feel_ heavier.

But no denying Mattys bike instantly feels lighter to just sit on and move around under you.
Then to jump back on mine , you can instantly feel a more solid mass of a bike under you.

Oh, no question at all - I was never doubting you on that. I was just thinking aloud about what it is that we "feel" as "weight", and that it's likely to be more about the tires than the actual mass difference between the two bikes.

big

[Betty]

Swing arm on these two are definitely not identical .... but dunno about the weight?

And seat height will change the feel with the 620 lowest as stock and no adjustment in the connector rod thingy.

[bigiain]

Swing arm on these two are definitely not identical .... but dunno about the weight?

Ahh, good catch, I keep forgetting some of you people have single sided swingarms!

I guess that'd add a bit of weight, both from the extra strength needed to resist the twisting forces as well as the more complex hub assembly. That kinda makes sense, I was trying to work out quite where 8 or 9 kgs was gonna come from just in the motor.

(and now to show I don't know what I'm talking about, the '05 1000 with the dual sided swingarm is quoted as 2kg _heavier_ at 180kg than the 08 S2R1000)

big

[tricolore]

Matty, you ride your 620 very well and I do feel that you would be faster on a quicker bike but I don't forget you are very familiar with your ride. I have only done 1400k's on mine so I am still feeling my way. You can certainly ride the corners well and when you consider that there is a limit to the speed you are likely to take into an unfamiliar corner (unless insanity provails). I agree with Doc, you can keep the pace up on the road, if you want to go faster consider a track bike for the real speed. If with the adreniline pumping you still want to go faster on the road then consider a bigger monster.
MY 2c

[bazz20]

ask yourself why buy a differrent bike, are you going to do track days , what offers more comfort , cost of maintanice and so on people ask me why the s2r why not the s4r for me its boiled down to two things i dont like the water cooled look in a naked bike but the biggest thing i liked about the s2r was the talk was lower down, be for any one flames me  i dont ride tracks, i dont ride at high speed , but i do ride tight twisties and arfter testing both bikes  the s2r 1000 does all i want it to do and i could afford a new one oposed to a second hand s4r thats just me ,we are all different all have different taste  wich is a good thing, thats the bike i ride and im happy , i no thers farster ,more powerfull ducs out there but they  are only a  dream but the bottom line is its a ducati and to me thats all that matters cheers bazz [moto]

[Spider]

Big, keep rambling mate...very good thoughts! scientifically it doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

and Matty....here's one for you to smile about....

I'm off to go play and try and work out why an exhaust, airbox, ecu system that is meant to be an holistic approach is giving me such a painfully lean (I suspect) ride...



Bazz, you can smile at that one too!

[bazz20]

i like that spyder 

[bigiain]

so on people ask me why the s2r why not the s4r for me its boiled down to two things i dont like the water cooled look in a naked bike but the biggest thing i liked about the s2r was the talk was lower down, be for any one flames me  i dont ride tracks, i dont ride at high speed , but i do ride tight twisties and arfter testing both bikes  the s2r 1000 does all i want it to do

No need to convince me mate! When I'm not enjoying my clapped out (199,910km old), asthmatic air cooled 2 valve 750 Monster, almost certainly less power than Matty's getting from his 620, I choose to ride my Honda Spada which has about half as much power.

I'm still fully aware that my bikes are both more capable than my riding (even my little 250), but I have a barrel of fun riding either of them (and, when I'm being honest with myself, there's a great deal of satisfaction in keeping up with people when you're riding clearly "inferior" machinery). I'm not going to try and claim I'm not jealous of Vinces impending new ride and it's ~200hp, but I certainly don't let the existence of machines like that reduce the pleasure I get riding mine...

big

[Betty]

Don't mind that graph Spider, especially considering our car has somewhat less than 20hp (and that was when it was new) ... and I am also one of the small monster brigade.

As to the difference between the weight of the thousands (and I am just talking off the top of my head here) : when did the plastic tank come in? also the marchesini wheels I would assume may be lighter on the S2R?

[DosVerde]

On the road there's not a huge difference between bikes, other than the rider. I go riding with a guy on an SV650. He is a small guy, so the bike suits, but I have a hard time keeping up to him in the twisties, simply because he is a better rider, and fortunatley I have learnt (and am still learning) from him.

The other weekend I was followig Madalf down the Chum Creek road on his S2R800, he probably has a better power to weight ratio than me on my S4R  ,OK maybe not, but when it came to the corners, i could not shove my bike past him 'cos we were both at limit where we were comfortable , and also have that little bit in reserve in case the situation got sticky. However I'm sure (i Hope) the more powerful bike would have made a difference on the track.

Having said that, the S4R just makes me quiver on full throttle, damn it's fast out of the corner.....

[tricolore]

Yeah gotta agree Dos. I am not likely to ever use my bikes potential, but Daing its fun to give it a wrist full when you get the opportunity.

[R_usty]

Hey Matty,

A lot of great info in this thread - One thing  that you may want to consider is the Turismo. I would expect that after you have done one Turismo you will want to go every year - It is addictive.

The reason I bring this up is that I rode my first Turismo on a 620 and I can tell you that after day 1 (or should I say 1 hour into day 1) I wanted a bigger bike. Not because it has more power but because a bigger bike can cruise better at speed. When you do the Turismo you will understand what I mean. However, the other beauty of the Turismo is that you always find a group of people riding at 'your' speed when 300 odd bikes are following the same route - a good way to meet people.

Anyway, just a thought.....

[Big T]

Yeah gotta agree Dos. I am not likely to ever use my bikes potential, but Daing its fun to give it a wrist full when you get the opportunity.

Hey ditto on tricolore's comment. I too only ride a fraction of my S4RTs capabilities......
But man what a rush I get from that fraction I tap into....
And that is what it is all about....
I too shall venture to more training days and get to ride that little bit more smoother.....
Watching you ride on those magic Michelins you have turned it up a notch......
Just watch Big Ian on the Sparda and you can appreciate that power isn't everything.....
Matty you are going to love what ever you ride..... Just some more than others.....