2011 M796 ABS Cold Start Issue

[bodybag]

I have read other Ducati forums where others have had similar problems, but I have had only 1 problem that occured twice with mine.

Twice I had it die while idleing, but both times it started right back up but since those two times, it has not occured again (knock on wood).

I have just over 2300 miles on it since March, 1st service was late - really late due to my local (well, only dealer in the state) having a backlog of service calls. I have made no modifications (but not for lack of wants).

I usually wheel it out of the garage, turn the key on, wait for the fuel pump to kick-in (usually 3-4 seconds after turning the key to on) and press the start button. I don't think I do anything special, I have not connect mine to the battery tender as I am still riding it almost everyday (in Indianapolis) weather dependent - I usually park it outside while at work and on cold mornings (~45F) it cranks a few more times before firing but idles and runs fine...I know that I would send it to the dealer until it was fixed - good luck.

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks for the feedback, "bodybag".

No stalling problems whatever, just getting mine to catch. Once it catches, it idles. I have been turning the key and letting the display scrolling complete before I hit the starter just in case the ECU needs to wake up. What have you been using for fuel?

Just guessing but it seems the starting strategy in the software in the 796 Siemens ECU is a bit on the lean side. You shouldn't have any more issue in starting at 45 F than at 80 F. The bike has sensor inputs for that variable as well as barometric pressure.

My dealer is good, but no point in going the three ugly hours back there until he knows what's causing this and has a real fix. He agrees. I'd be happy with a band-aid protocol if DNA can come up with something. We already know from the computer readouts that all sensors and inputs are working correctly. It "appears" that the issue is in the software at this point.

Appreciate the input!

[Arachnosold1er]

The only stalling issue I had was due in part by the evap can. There was a kink in the fuel tank vent hose that I think was causing a vaccum condition in the tank. I took off the evap can and found the slight kink and re-routed the hoses. I had just bought the bike and it was mid summer. I also had an issue with pressure building up in the tank when it got hot (100+ deg days) which led me to find the kinked vent hose. I would open the tank to vent the pressure, then as fuel was consumed and the tank cooled, a vaccum condition was created. I know this sounds strang but after I fixed the kink I have had no starting or stalling issues. Good luck with your bike. I hope you get it figured out soon!

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks! That's actually a good tip for others. My evaps is removed and no vacuum in the tank, but I do recall reading on some forum or other that opening the cap cured one gent's cold start issue on his M1100. No doubt a kinked vent line was the cause.

[cyberswine]

My 796 ABS has not given me any of the problems described in this thread..... yet (touch wood).  The temperature is just dropping now locally so I've had no experience with cold weather starts.  Anything I might have suggested has already been covered by other members so all I can offer is my condolences.  I feel your pain, very very frustrating.  Good luck!

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks! It hasn't been chilly in Toronto yet?  It was 45 F here last night but 70 F later.

So far, once started, my 796 has restarted normally with the first attempt. If it didn't, that would be totally unacceptable. My issue seems to be cold starts the next day after the immobilizer warning has stopped flashing. (Unrelated I'm told.) Since I know it will start eventually, the present problem is mainly an annoyance. It's inconvenient and it bugs me that I haven't so far devised a workaround. (Never had this with a Ducati or anything else before.)

The bike has been parked since Sunday because it poured all week and today it cleared but 40 MPH gusts. Next two days are nice, so I'll take a long ride out to the Blue Ridge Parkway to leaf-peep and have a good lunch at a brewery nearby.

If the bike starts right up, fine and dandy. If it doesn't, I'm going to throw on the Battery Tender Jr. until it has a full charge and then hit the starter. (Some M1100's needed a stronger battery.) If it's reluctant then, I'll wait for DNA to suggest something since my dealer showed me on the Ducati computer that all systems were "go". Very odd... If DNA has no suggestions, I'll ask for another 796 ABS ECU since this appears to be a cold start strategy / software thing.

Will keep you posted.

[metroplex]

Any updates?

[metroplex]

What is this PCV fix that you speak of?

I know that when the engine is running, I can feel vacuum through the charcoal canister breather hose which suggests that the intake is pulling in "unmetered" air via that canister or can lean out the mixture.

[Arachnosold1er]

Ok, So now all of a sudden I have the same problem. When I ride to work when it is warm (3pm) and then go to leave work when it is cold (2 am) my bike does not want to start. It has been a bit "cold natured" since I changed the exhaust to Arrow Darks (no db killer) but now it can take many (5+) times to start and then warm up before I can go. I think that maybe the temp change is the culprit but I'm not sure how. I know that for some reason the pipes are also contributing to the issue. My best guess is that the cold air and nearly open exhaust are causing a fueling issue. Its a bit embarrasing when a Harley owner can jump on their heap and I am sitting trying to start my Duc. Any ideas on this yet?

[Curmudgeon]

You just installed the slip-ons but not the DP Race ECU, right? The jury is still out on this but I suspect the Euro 3 cold start strategy is too lean on the stock ECU. I'm still not sure whether 215 CCA on the stock battery is sufficient or whether the bike needs a richer map.

For now, turn the bike on and wait for the mileage to come up and hold the start button while you crank it. If the bike won't start, wait 5 minutes while you get your gear on, etc. and then repeat the process. Mostly mine has started then whereas just trying to crank it over and over takes forever.

See what you find and report back. Maybe a Fat Duc would correct this but they don't appear to make one for our bikes. "thought" didn't have this issue running the DP ECU and Termignonis on his 796 and I'd guess that ECU is richer.

[metroplex]

I have the DP Race ECU and Termi's on my 696, and the cold starts are problematic. I found that waiting 20+ seconds after the LCD scrolling text helps with the cold starts for some reason.

[Curmudgeon]

I have the DP Race ECU and Termi's on my 696, and the cold starts are problematic. I found that waiting 20+ seconds after the LCD scrolling text helps with the cold starts for some reason.

Maybe post that on a 696 cold start thread somewhere. Your bike has a cold start lever which implies a very different cold start strategy in the ECU. A 796 has a lot more in common with an M1100 and 1100evo including many shared components. Any similarity between a 696 and 796 is probably coincidental rather than substantive IMO.

[metroplex]

You keep saying that, but doing a Google search for "Ducati Cold start" shows a large number of Ducati models ranging from the 1098/1198 Superbikes to the Monster experiences cold start issues. Whether or not they have an idle air bypass motor or not doesn't seem to be the mitigating factor.

I found that the fast idle lever is not really used for cold starts contrary to the owner's manual, but rather is used to let it idle faster and reduce warmup time in the cold. I have an easier time starting my 696 with that lever fully shut/closed. If I follow the owner's manual at 20F-30F, it won't start until 15 minutes of cranking rituals. If I keep that lever shut, I can maybe get the engine to start AND idle within 5 minutes.

What Arachnosoldier described fits my 696 to a "T", FWIW.

[Howie]

I wonder if, as metroplex pointed out elsewhere, the EVAP canister might be at least part of the problem.  It is indeed a vacuum leak though small.  The canister is a North American EPA compliance bolt on.  Closed loop would have no problem dealing with this, but on start up and initial warm up the bike might be a bit lean.  A h, I see metroplex posted again.  This could also explain why the fast idle is a starting hindrance rather than a starting aid.

[Curmudgeon]

I had the problem on the 796 with the evaps and it continues unchanged without the evaps. I'll wager $0.05 that it's the Euro 3 spec and the Siemens ECU. More CCA might overcome it anyway. TBD...