2011 M796 ABS Cold Start Issue

[Curmudgeon]

Where are you? The bike is still under warranty, so if I were you, I'd call customer service at DNA and ask them to recommend a GOOD dealer who can plug into the ECU and check all the parameters. IMO a bike that new should not need throttle bodies synced. If the worst problem you have now is the bike stalling at idle as the O2 sensors are warm enough to cut in, just ride the thing. It starts when warm no issue, right?

Reading your other posts, there is no way a shade tree mechanic is going to be able to do everything on that bike IMO. There are LOTS of variables that Siemens ECU will be processing constantly and the Euro 3 mixture is already ragged edge lean. This is not a carbed bike with no emissions. Think modern sports car data processing but without knock sensors.

[CFM]

I'm located in oahu. Temps in my area are around the 60s in the morning and after the sun comes up its warm enough. My issues however occur on even the hottest of days. I don't trust my dealer and because it's an island they are the only one. If what you say is true I may have to bite the bullet and see what they say.

[CFM]

Update:  Yesterday when i got off work, the bike had beed sitting covered under a parking garage for several hours.  When i got off around noonish temps were in the 90s and when i went to start the bike it fired right up.  Then about ten seconds into idling it stuttered and almost cut off, then it continued to idle fine for another 20 seconds and stuttered a second time and almost cut off.  After that it idled fine and i rode off.  I wasn't touching the motorcycle nothing had changed, i don't understand why its doing this.

[Curmudgeon]

Possibly because the O2 sensors were warming up. The bike is on a cold start map until the sensors are warm enough to provide data. Then the ECU adjusts the mixture to operate with that data. Usually you wouldn't notice because you'd be riding as the switch-over occurs.

[Nxtr6]

CFM, Mahalo... Hey I have an 09 1100S same issues you having, I have the termi slip ons and ecu, along with canister delete tried everything that has been mentioned, and found the fix that works the best is to open the gas cap prior to inserting key. I have had about a first time start 90% success rate, I did however finally have one of my buddies ask why I always open my tank before i started my bike, told it ways part of the security system disarm, HAHAHA...

No for the good news, the other morning i was struck with the 10%. I went through the motions turn off the stop run switch, turn off the key then decided what the heck. I turned the key back to on, and forgot to hit the run switch, and pushed the start button...

And... of course it didn't start...

But something happen that I have never seen, or may have missed discussed previously about the hard starting issue...

I always leave my high beams on, (being seen is worth the cost of a bulb) anyhow i noticed the the high beam light and indicator on the dash both shut off. additionally the fuel pump began whirring. I was like hmmm never done that before, so I then turned the run switch to start, and the high beam and indicator stayed off. My first thought was oh well, finally burned it out and proceeded to thumb the start button a wouldn't you know it she fired right up and the high beam and indicator came back on... now haven't had a false start since the other day, been trying to induce it by not using my open the gas cap trick to no avail... as soon as it happens again I'll post an update as to what happens...

Give it a try if it happens to you and let me know what your results are...

Has anyone else tried this?

Nick...   

[Curmudgeon]

The gas cap trick is well discussed on the 1100S but no idea why it should matter with a canister delete. Gas cap has no effect on my 796 BTW. (Today it started instantly after a week anyway; go figure!). Using the kill switch or not has no effect on a 796 either, but I understand it can on an 1100S if you use the kill switch before turning off the key. The 1100S is Siemens I guess, but has a lot of other differences and is twin spark, right?

The headlight / kill switch thing sounds like a coincidence to me, but let us know how this pans out for you. As I've stated above, on my 796, if it won't fire on the first attempt, if I then wait five minutes before trying again, it always starts these days. Something obviously has to "wake up".

[CFM]

UPDATE: I rode my motorcycle from work to my house, six miles, and to the dmv, three miles.  It is 81 degrees today.  When i came back outside after about 2 hours i tried to start my bike and it wouldn't even turn over.  it would try to catch and the rpm inidicated around 500 but it would just sputter out and die.  it took me 4 tries before it finally started.  There was another rider who was next to me while this was happening.  He asked if i get my gas on base and he said they put water in it.  He said to try and let it run dry as much as possible and fill it with fresh gas from a station that doesn't use water.  If the problem goes away then the starting issue was water in the fuel.  I have no idea why this would be happening to a new 2011 bike.  so im going to try it and post the results.

[gitter]

I read through this thread so if this has already been posted I apologize. I have the cold start issue on with my 2012 monster 796.

Here's what I have noticed: When I turn the key into the on position, sometimes I dont hear the exhaust valve motor (located under the seat) cycle. When the exhaust valve motor doesnt cycle the bike wont start. Usually if I play with the motor / cable, and turn the bike off and back to the on position, the exhaust valve will cycle and the bike will fire right up.

The only time my bike has not started when its been cold, have been the times that the exhaust valve doesnt cycle prior to attempting to start the bike. I havent figured out a solution to it yet.

For those of you with a 796 and this issue, I would be interested to know if your exhaust valve cycles before your bike doesnt start.

Gitter

[Curmudgeon]

That's a really interesting observation! On mine I'm fairly certain the motor is cycling while I wait for the display to completely initialize. Maybe I'm just hearing the fuel pump though and not the distinct motor sound too. As it's 35 F here, it might be a while before I dig the bike out again, but I'll definitely listen carefully and report back here. So far the five minute wait between starting attempts has always worked.

Your bike must still be under warranty too, so perhaps get that whole assembly replaced while you can! If I find that valve motor is not cycling on mine, you can be sure I will have DNA replace mine before next July.

My dealer is 140 miles from me, so I was hoping to get everything sorted at the 7,500 mile service when I could leave the bike for several days or a week. That service involves for me a minimum of two 280 mile trips and another driver, or more costly..., two trips with my son's big pick-up and bike trailer...

[freeclimbmtb]

My '11 796 has a midpipe from a 696 so no flapper valve and a duc.ee motor eliminator so no CEL, I also have Arrow slipons with db killers removed.  No other engine mods (air filter/box, reflash, etc) I had cold start problems when it was less than 1000 miles or so, but since the exhaust mods, it fires no problem even down to 30F or so.  (Ill give it a start when I get home today as its about 20-25F out today.)

[Howie]

I read through this thread so if this has already been posted I apologize. I have the cold start issue on with my 2012 monster 796.

Here's what I have noticed: When I turn the key into the on position, sometimes I dont hear the exhaust valve motor (located under the seat) cycle. When the exhaust valve motor doesnt cycle the bike wont start. Usually if I play with the motor / cable, and turn the bike off and back to the on position, the exhaust valve will cycle and the bike will fire right up.

The only time my bike has not started when its been cold, have been the times that the exhaust valve doesnt cycle prior to attempting to start the bike. I havent figured out a solution to it yet.

For those of you with a 796 and this issue, I would be interested to know if your exhaust valve cycles before your bike doesnt start.

Gitter

You might have something there, I'm anxious to hear from 796 owners.

You might have something there, I'm anxious to hear from 796 owners.

[gitter]

If it turns out to be the case, I think a duc ee is in my future as it seems like that is the most painless option. (and I can get rid of the dead weight)

[crush02342002]

13' m796 here with some start/stalling issues. a few times iv started my bike up in the morning and let it idle while i get my gear on (5-10min) after five min it dies but starts right back up. a hand full of times it was hard starting as if the batt just lacked the juice to turn the engine over. got a tad bit over 1k miles on it with no mods unless you count the plug for my heated gear. the stalling though has happend even before I installed the heated gear plug. Told my dealer about it at my 600mile service and they told me it will go away after the service. I wondered how a simple oil change would stop the stalling issue, felt a bit more confident when i was told they would upload updates to the ecu. when they finished I asked if there were any new updates loaded and they said that I had the current updated already.

Ill pay more attention to the exhaust valve and take notes. who knows

[Curmudgeon]

Crush,

Can't comment on your hard start as I've never had a cranking issue, but your bike dying after idling for 5 minutes is not abnormal particularly. My guess, the O2 sensors are kicking in as they get hot enough and the initial sensor settings the ECU received are no longer appropriate. Restarting also resets the ECU for the "outside" vs garage conditions.

If you take off one day and the bike isn't running just right after a few minutes, pull over and shut down for ~ 15 - 20 seconds. When you restart, the ECU resets and It'll be running just the way you want. Siemens is just like a car, only missing a few sensor inputs. That creates some of these issues.

[cyberswine]

Never had cold starting problems on mine (so far) but to refresh an issue with the exhasut valve:  if you think it may be causing a problem just disconnect the drive cable from the motor.  The valve defaults to open and as long as you leave the electrical harness connected you will not have any EXV errors.  It really is that simple, it's worked for me for over 13k klicks and others have reported the same thing.  The only thing a Duc EE would do for me is save a few ounces in weight by removing the motor.