748 superbike front end on old M750

[motolady]

I got my Monster in practically totalled condition. The previous owner had ridden it into a ditch and slammed and scraped onto the other side. Both sides of the tank were dented, the clip ons bent and scratched, front wheel bent, no master cylinder, etc, etc... I decided from the get-go that I wanted to overhaul the bike and trick it out instead of replace with [many times ugly] stock items.

First and biggest thing was converting the entire front end to a 748 front end. Major benefit here is that the old Monster shocks are not adjustable. Amongst other benefits like better shocks in general, thicker axel, looks awesome, etc. I am going for a retro modern look, ivory black and gold. So these 748 forks I got for cheap will look nice. I am doing as many of these mods myself as possible. However I do not have the tools or expertise for a lot of it. So my friend Jeff Yarrington in Maryland helped me out with the machining and such, after we devised what seemed like the best plan for doing the swap.

Here's some major parts of the process in pictures.

--

If I remember correctly, the old forks were 50mm on top and 54mm on bottom. This meant that we'd have to remove 3mm worth of material from the top triple and shim 1mm for the bottom. This was already a bad idea. Not as safe as it could or should be, etc. So I bought the whole front end. Triples, axle, wheel, and steering stem. I sent them to Jeff. The idea was that he was going to take the old monster stem and adapt it for the 748 triples.

BEFORE front end swap: 1998 Ducati Monster 750 Dark


AFTER front end swap


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words from Jeff: "The goal was to be able to bolt on a more modern 748 front end with better dampening. The stem on the 748 setup is a huge diameter, & the 750 stem is a more traditional size.

This is where John Leatherman from Draft Cycle Works (website) was needed….a lot. He did his magic & made a thread in adapter for the bottom tree that the 750 stem pressed into. On the top, he made a beautiful spacer with an inverted step so the washer & bolt head would sit in flush. He likes neat & tidy and is very good at it."


The triples from the 748’s are also way better looking. Win.


jeff- "The part with X I need to remove, the remaining bit the thickness of my pinky will remain. This is what will make the ignition switch area on the 750 need a tweak, as the old 750 tree sits a billimeter from the ignition switch."


jeff- "Here is the remaining bit that protrudes past where the original 750 tree went (750 tree sitting on 748 tree in the pic)"


jeff- Adapter that has 750 Stem, pressed into it, & it threads into the lower tree, red loctite on threads.


In place as it would be.


jeff - "Screw the bolt in. Here you see where I removed the stabilizer mount as well, cut, rounded, polished a hair to look a bit nicer. Bam! Looks factory."


You can see the entire process Jeff posted on his blog here:
http://saintmotorbikes.blogspot.com/p/ducati-748-fork-adapted-to-750.html

At this point I get them back and put it all together and encounter an issue, as many times happens. The steering stops are doing their job too well.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu3z1zzFLv1qe98i5.jpg


Converting it to a dual disc system...


And get 748 clip ons, as I suspected they would fit perfectly with the tank and not threaten to slap the tank.


Work dremmel magic on the steering stop..


Very carefully.


Some careful WHACKING with a rubber hammer...


All gone with minor nicks to the frame. Since I'm getting the frame powder coated, this will be painted over after being sanded down and filled in.


As you can see, the bars do not contact the tank at all. I could honestly go without having a steering stop if I wanted to be ghetto about it. But because I believe in doing things the right way, we will be reattaching a single steering stop style nubbin in the middle of the frame, and also using this same bracket as a place to mount the headlight. A small bit of the bracket that holds the ignition needs to be carved away too, as the front bolt space on the triple contacts (blocks by about 1mm) the frame bracket.


Looks frackin' pretty!


I will be anodizing the triples and clip ons gold to match other bits of the bike as well as wrapping the forks above the lower triple, and maybe below it too.

And FYI, there's more details and more pictures on my blog post...
http://themotolady.com/post/12317023346/phase9monsterproject

And more about the Monster Project in general on my blog..
http://themotolady.com/tagged/monster_project

[Heffe]

Looks great, can't wait to see it finnished...

[Raux]

Are the offsets the same?

[Spck31]

really awesome project!! Killer look!

[thought]

great first couple of posts

[motolady]

Are the offsets the same?

I don't think they are.

[motolady]

really awesome project!! Killer look!

great first couple of posts

Thank you both!

Looks great, can't wait to see it finnished...

Me either, for reeeeeals.

[junior varsity]

I don't think they are.

No, they are 36mm on stock superbike triples.  25mm on first generation monsters, and 30mm on second generation ducatis.


I would not have taken this approach, personally.  I have done Superbike fork conversions on all 3 of my pre-01 Monsters.   

[motolady]

Oh? Would you like to share what approach you would have taken?

[junior varsity]

Have taken multiple times - I've posted about it a bunch.   It involves some money, but the setup is great in the end.  Here's a short list of the bits, and then three quick examples that are in my garage, I'll append pics later.

Hardware Supplies List:
1. Req: New Tapered Bearings / Seals, OEM Part 069191010 (x2)...much cheaper from source (like half off!),
2. Opt: Base Washer, OEM Part # 85210961A (x1) (or hassle w removing old from original stem & seal).
3. Opt: Replace dished special top washer if worn, mangled, ugly, whatever. 069137020
4. Opt: Replace stem ferrule if mangled by idiot using a screw driver instead of a spanner wrench. 079537120
5. Opt: Washer/Nylon-Washer (beneath cap-bolt, above top triple) if necessary: 85610401A
6. Opt: Cap-Bolt/Upper-Bracket Plug - if mangled, OEM: 87310161C, or get slick billet versions.

Choose-From-List:  (This is the plan-ahead part)

• If equipping a 1999 or older Monster, you've got the solid 20mm front axle, and no superbike fork uses this - you'll be needing to upgrade: Front Mudguard (wrong mount spacing on old version!), Front Axle (get SBK-specific so you can adjust fork settings through fork bottoms on 748-998 type fork bottoms!), Front Wheel (w rotor pattern to match type of fork bottoms you select: 749-999 + newer require 5-bolt rotor pattern wheel and 5-bolt, 15mm offset, 748-998 use 6-bolt, 10mm offset rotors and 6-bolt rotor pattern wheels). Speedo-Drive (Monster specific! The superbike ones are apparently geared differently and will not display correctly on a cable-driven monster speedo).  If you grab 996/748+ newer forks, the fork bottoms use 65mm caliper mount spacing, instead of 40mm - update to newer calipers or get billet adapter plates (from yoyodyne, AMS, motowheels, or brembo). If you upgrade to radial caliper fork bottoms, you'll obviously need radial calipers (and see note re: rotor offset, spacers can be used to overcome difference in some situations).   If you are buying used forks, change the fork fluid and check the seals - really need to check the fork spring rate as well, because if you are hoping for the original ducati SBK spring rate (which is pleasantly stiffer than the OEM Monster fork springs), you'll be disappointed if its been changed already!
• If equipping 2000+ Monster, you've already got the correct diameter axle/wheel/speedo combination. You can upgrade to SBK type axle to enable adjustments to fork damping through bottom of fork bottoms. No problems with front fender mount either.

On Forks:
Monster lower triples are 54mm diameter. Monster top triples are 50mm.
Superbike-Showa forks are 53/53. Superbike-Ohlins is 53/56. Japanese forks are sometimes 50, sometimes 52, sometimes 48, you get the idea.  Don't forget the steering damper: If you've got a damper, the fork damper clamp is at 54mm from the factory - that's what is included in every Ohlins SD-154 kit (for Monsters)
* If you want to reuse original, you get to modify parts - Machine-shop time! shim lower & bore upper for SBK-Showa, bore lower & bore upper for SBK-Ohlins
* I do not like modifying the original cast parts: They are weak to begin with, and the lower is the puny 2-bolt version (want to see something pitiful, look under the 848 and see the same bottom triple with stem staked at different offset position!). Here, your SBK lower is clearly superior to the monster lower, but the steering stems are all wrong, and stems are not intended to be removed and changed.  For reusing OEM bits, I am not a fan of shims at all.  There are billet aftermarket triple clamps out there that provide a very attractive solution: pre-made at correct sizes: no re-boring, no shims, no cast flimsy lowers. Usually they command a premium, and often aren't available for the first-generation monsters.

I got mine from IMA Special Parts - the "MODEL 1" / "MOD1" line is for skinny-stem (early) ducati, like Monster/SS/851-888.  They are available in OEM 50/54 sizing, 53/53 Showa-SBK sizing, and 53/56 Ohlins-SBK sizing, and custom sizing for japanese-fork retrofits.  They also had billet damper brackets in the right size, so I could "one-stop shop".  This was nice to find out, but on the first time I ordered IMA parts, my bonehead had already ordered the Ohlins fork clamp, which cost twice as much (and i was getting DEALER pricing on the Ohlins!).  Needless to say, I've not made that mistake again.  The MOD1 triples were under $500 shipped to my door, (MOD1-N and MOD1-S with bar risers and damper clamp on the clamps for second and third bikes - also for Showa-SBK forks, it was just over 600 i think)

Tools:

• Lookup Torque figures ahead of time from manual (i'll add them with pics if I remember to)
• Torque Wrench
• 5, 6, 8mm Allens
• Sticky/Gooey Stuff: Bearing Grease, Grease for Axle, Anti-Seize

My Three Examples:

SBK Fork Conversion #1: Monster '99 "Cafe Monster" Red w/ White Corsa Stripe paint, 998 Showa Forks

• IMA Special Parts MOD1-Hybrid - Black (no riser mounts top triple) (link)
• Showa TiN coated 998 Forks with Ohlins Internals, fresh fluids & springs; 65mm Brembo-type caliper mounts
• ISR Billet 6-piston Calipers (22-032-OA/OB) - 40mm Brembo-type Mounts (link)
• ISR Floating 6-bolt, 320mm calipers (needed changing, why not upgrade) (link)
• AMS (Advanced Motorsports) Billet 40mm-to-65mm Caliper Adapters (from their AMA racing days)
• TPO Billet Lightweight Front Axle (link)
• Billet Speedo-Delete (From either Fast Frank Racing, Motowheels, or Mad-Duc, can't recall)
• Billet Triple Clamp Top Bolt - "Revolver", from Motowheels (not available anymore?)
• IMA Adjustable Clipon Handlebars (link)
• Motowheels Billet Cross-Mount Damper Bracket for Ohlins SD-121 Generic 68mm Damper (link)
• IMA Special Parts Billet Fork Damper Clamp - 53mm (link)
• Replaced U-Bracket for headlight with billet fork collars
• BST Carbon 996 Front Fender
• BST Carbon Wheels
• (Currently doing Febur SSS conversion to this bike!)

SBK Fork Conversion #2: Monster 1998 - "Commuter" Blue/Silver Bevel-SS paint", 916 Showa Forks

• IMA Special Parts MOD1-N - Black (with riser mounts on top triple) (link)
• Showa 916 Forks, fresh fluids & springs; and upgraded the regular goldline's with Brembo Billet GP calipers (same mounts)
• Brembo Full Floating WSBK iron rotors w ANTRON billet lightweight carriers (via "BCM") (might as well upgrade 'em)
• OEM 916-998 Front Axle
• OEM Monster 2000+ Speedometer Drive
• Billet Triple Clamp Top Bolt - "Swirl", from Motowheels (not available anymore?)
• Carbon 916-996 front mudguard - CM Composit
• Ohlins SD-154 Steering Damper
• IMA Special Parts Billet Fork Damper Clamp - 53mm (link)
• Rizoma BLUE 22mm Handlebar (link)
• IMA Special Parts N-Type Bar Risers (link)
• IMA Special Parts N-Type Bar Risers Spacers - 10mm (to clear SBK forks add'l height & for comfort, link)
• Billet Fairing Brackets for old school (98-99) headlight fairing / cowl.
• Carbon headlight fairing / cowl (98-99 old school round one, with double-bubble windscreen)
• 916 3-spoke Front Wheel (Saving up to upgrade wheels in 2012)
• (This is my "bagger", for riding two-up, grocery-getting, and such.)

SBK Fork Conversion #3: Monster '00 - "Trackster-Project" Black/Gold Darmah paint, 848 Showa Forks

• IMA Special Parts MOD1-S - Black Upper, Gold Lower(with riser mounts on top triple) (link)
• Showa 848 Forks, Radial 100mm caliper mounts
• OEM 848/1098 Front Axle
• Billet Axle Spacers - Fast Frank Racing (link)
• OEM 1098 front mudguard
• Custom titanium triple clamp top bolt
• Ohlins SD-154 Steering Damper
• IMA Special Parts Billet Fork Damper Clamp - 53mm (link)
• Rizoma Black 29mm Handlebar (link)
• IMA Special Parts S-Type Bar Risers (link)
• Billet Fairing Brackets for old school (98-99) headlight fairing / cowl.
• Ducati Performance Carbon Monster-Cup Race Series front fairing / cowl (no headlight)
• Forged Alu Marchesini front wheel
• (This bike is in mid-project mode while I figure out the 888-tank mounting, and Corsa eccentric adjustable shock rocker.)

In other fork-swap related stuff, I switched my 916-era SBK's forks out in favor of 1098-1198 type forks, with radial calipers and such. Requires the axle, spacers, and wheel+rotors (unless willing to do custom spacers and 998R-type 6-bolt, 15mm offset rotors)

[Raux]

One of my biggest concerns with the way motolady did it is the offset. I wonder how the handling of the bike changes with that.

[junior varsity]

Going from OEM 25mm to SBK 36mm will be substantial.   Its probably going to dive in crazy fast and not feel really stable on that Monster frame's geometry.   I ditched the 36mm offset triples on my SBK, like many do, in favor of something closer to the 30mm range.

Some of that is mitigated since the forks are flush with the top triple, and the SBK forks are longer than the Monster forks.   End result is not a lot of weight on a twitchy front end.

[motolady]

Going from OEM 25mm to SBK 36mm will be substantial.   Its probably going to dive in crazy fast and not feel really stable on that Monster frame's geometry.   I ditched the 36mm offset triples on my SBK, like many do, in favor of something closer to the 30mm range.

Some of that is mitigated since the forks are flush with the top triple, and the SBK forks are longer than the Monster forks.   End result is not a lot of weight on a twitchy front end.

I don't know, I've got a couple people at MotoCorsa (the shop I work at) that did it this way or something similar and they seem to really enjoy the ride with the different front end. I plan to rebuild the back shock so that it works better with the front end too.

[Raux]

I would at least add a steering damper.
My first Monster (a 99 City) ended with a tank slapper. And it was stock.

[motolady]

I would at least add a steering damper.
My first Monster (a 99 City) ended with a tank slapper. And it was stock.

I'd like to add a steering damper.

It's not even possible for my bars to hit my tank at the angle of the 748 clip ons.