Rizoma bar end weights - instructions and questions

[teddy037.3]

I could keep the tard inside the box  I was pretty stoked about that.

sounds like you had crap instructors, though. that's a bummer

[Dirty Duc]

What I meant was that a lot of the low speed stuff was tricky but not useful. The turn radius of my 696 is fairly wide, I tried doing a U-turn on my subdivision and it wasn't possible. I don't recall a situation where I needed to do a Figure 8 either. But making a right or left turn from a stop or leaving a tight parking spot are realistic scenarios that aren't really taught in the class.

If I were to take the BRC again, I wouldn't have a problem though.

I took the BRC and promptly bought my S2R... A week later it slid down the road because it requires much less squeeze to lock up the front of a monster than a TW200.  I picked it up and practiced the slow speed stuff as often as possible.  The S2R (while under power and not leaning) actually has a bigger turning radius than an F-250.  The trick is to lean.  It took me a long time before I could get it to turn around in two parking lot spaces.  Now I can (usually).  Just keep practicing it.

[metroplex]

In those situations I just use foot power if possible. The non-existent friction zone of the hydraulic clutch makes it kind of difficult to dial that in at low speeds and like you said, it has to be leaned over. However, I watched some Harley owners back their bikes into parking spots (using foot power) and the bikes turned with the greatest of ease. I do that in my garage to turn it around, and I need to do a 4-5 point turn. There seems to be a big difference. I'm sure with practice I can do very slow and tight Figure 8s with my 696, but I don't see the point if there is a risk to dropping the bike and I can just use foot power to do the same job.

I found that I needed a lot of front brake lever pressure to even come close to locking up the front on my 696. In fact, I could feel the rear trying to lift up w/o the front coming close to lock up on dry tarmac. I only use 2 fingers for the brakes though, so YMMV. And I noticed after about 4-5 hard stops using the front brakes, they no longer worked as effectively and seemed like they were starting to fade. The front seems very progressive in feel with a vague initial bite. The rear is too easy to lock up on dry tarmac.

[Dirty Duc]

In those situations I just use foot power if possible. The non-existent friction zone of the hydraulic clutch makes it kind of difficult to dial that in at low speeds and like you said, it has to be leaned over.

Yeah, that's why I don't have an APTC anymore.

However, I watched some Harley owners back their bikes into parking spots (using foot power) and the bikes turned with the greatest of ease. I do that in my garage to turn it around, and I need to do a 4-5 point turn. There seems to be a big difference.

Yep, my GS has actual steering also.  There is significantly more steering angle available on most non-sport-oriented bikes.  Plus the GS (and Hardleys and many others) have a much lower gear ratio in first.  This makes it easier to do the slow stuff because you don't have to slip the clutch to go less than 15 mph.

I'm sure with practice I can do very slow and tight Figure 8s with my 696, but I don't see the point if there is a risk to dropping the bike and I can just use foot power to do the same job.

You look cooler when you just whip it in 

I found that I needed a lot of front brake lever pressure to even come close to locking up the front on my 696. In fact, I could feel the rear trying to lift up w/o the front coming close to lock up on dry tarmac. I only use 2 fingers for the brakes though, so YMMV. And I noticed after about 4-5 hard stops using the front brakes, they no longer worked as effectively and seemed like they were starting to fade. The front seems very progressive in feel with a vague initial bite. The rear is too easy to lock up on dry tarmac.

Yeah, I no longer use my whole hand.  I did mention it was immediately after being indoctrinated by the BRC? 

[thought]

read up on this thread for a whole lot of good information with some pretty awesome pics on how to do slow speed turns:

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52779.msg972609#msg972609

also, metroplex, look into getting some aftermarket levers... with the great amt of adjustment you can feather the clutch a lot more easily and comfortably.  this will make it easier to control.  the ebay ones work great and they're $35 a pair shipped.  i buy mine from "the2wheels" on ebay.  you can look up reviews of them on this board.

[Curmudgeon]

also, metroplex, look into getting some aftermarket levers... with the great amt of adjustment you can feather the clutch a lot more easily and comfortably.  this will make it easier to control.  the ebay ones work great and they're $35 a pair shipped.  i buy mine from "the2wheels" on ebay.  you can look up reviews of them on this board.

I have to wonder whether he's still got a 15T on that thing too. A 14T will help a bit with low speed maneuvers and IMO a 696 is massively overgeared with a 15T. In fact, after riding a 696 demo with a 15T, I ordered my 796 with a 14T! 

[metroplex]

The aftermarket levers have me worried about cost, because if they get mangled in a drop, that's $120-$200 versus the $60 for an OEM Brembo lever. I also looked at the lever adjustments and I don't think it will help with the non-existent friction zone.

I wondered about the 15T sprocket. With the stock 15/45, the final drive is 3.00 and with the 14T, it is 3.21 does it make that big of a difference?

Do I need to change anything else with the 14T, like reprogram the ECU for the correct speedometer reading?

[thought]

The aftermarket levers have me worried about cost, because if they get mangled in a drop, that's $120-$200 versus the $60 for an OEM Brembo lever. I also looked at the lever adjustments and I don't think it will help with the non-existent friction zone.

I wondered about the 15T sprocket. With the stock 15/45, the final drive is 3.00 and with the 14T, it is 3.21 does it make that big of a difference?

Do I need to change anything else with the 14T, like reprogram the ECU for the correct speedometer reading?

please reread the post i made about the levers, i said to get the ebay ones.  they're $35 a pair and in terms of construction, exactly like the pazzo/crgs.  if you mess one up, it's half the price of a oem lever to replace both.  search ebay for "the2wheels" to find a good seller or search this forum for "ebay levers" to find a huge thread about them. and trust me, it will help. i didnt understand how much of a diff they make till i got them too, but now i consider it a must have first mod on a bike... especially at that price point.  you can not get them if you want, but you'll be missing out on prob one of the cheapest comfort/control mods you can get for a bike.

and all current new monsters come overgeared from the factory to pass emissions.  the 14t will help a lot with lower speed maneuvers like curmudgeon said.  and you dont have to change anything on the bike except switching out the old 15t sprocket for the 14t.  you're also going to find yourself riding in the sweet spot of the engine at normal highway speeds.

[metroplex]

Woops, I didn't read that closely enough.
I'll have to read more about the 14T swap. I didn't want to mess with the chain or bike too much because it is so new, but I'd like to swap out the levers. I actually bought a new replacement Brembo lever but I will check out the ones on eBay.

I read a few threads on the levers, and there was a lot of talk about copyright stuff, etc... but the question I have is how dependable are those aftermarket knock off levers? The front brake is very important, life or death important, and my concern is if the aftermarket lever will break or bend under pressure.

The stock levers feel OK in my hands, I wear size Large A* GP Pro gloves (medium will fit but Large is more comfortable) and just stab the clutch for up/downshifts and can use just 2 fingers for the front brake. If I wear my Held Phantoms, the front lever will touch the knuckles of my ring and pinky protectors on the gloves when fully engaged. So I don't feel additional adjustments would be very useful, then again I haven't tried the aftermarket units.

[thought]

i wear large gloves too.  the shape and adjustment is better and more comfortable especially for aptc clutch where the clutch engagement is at the very end of the travel.

get the long clutch and shorty brake levers.  long clutch for the leverage, but since you'll never need more than 2 fingers on the brakes, the short levers will not interfere with your fingers at full engagement.

like i said before, the quality is exactly the same in terms of fit and finish.  i cant say it is for all of the ebay sellers, but for the ones i've gotten from that one seller, they've been perfect.  the only complaint is that the anodizing tends to fade faster than the crg/pazzo ones.  if that's a huge issue, get the silver levers.  or just buy another set, you can basically get 6 sets for every set of the crg/pazzo's you get. or 4 sets for every pair of oem levers.

in general, for advice on the internet, it's always taken with a grain of salt but for the levers and the 14t... it's so widely accepted as better that there really isnt much use in second guessing the advice.

also, dont bother getting the $70 dp 14t sprocket, just get one from monsterparts... it's about 35-40.

[metroplex]

I read about the chain wear/noise from the sharper angle with the 14T, so I may skip on the 14T. I'll check out the silver adjustable levers. Do you have any specific links to the ones you mentioned? I can't access eBay here and will do it when I get home.

I normally use just 2 fingers to stab the clutch for shifts, I think I can do that for taking off and stopping as well because of the ridiculously small friction zone.

[Curmudgeon]

I read about the chain wear/noise from the sharper angle with the 14T, so I may skip on the 14T. I'll check out the silver adjustable levers. Do you have any specific links to the ones you mentioned? I can't access eBay here and will do it when I get home.

Sorry... If that were a real issue, do you actually believe that Ducati would offer a 14T as an option so that DP could sell more chains?! Gearing Ducatis down a hair has been popular in this country anyway for at least 30 years if not more. If chain wear really were an issue, there'd be x100 more threads about it. Instead, you'll read x100 threads about how much more rideable the little bikes are with a 14T. It's even popular on 1100 evos!

YOU need to learn to ride the bike. Are you going to miss the enjoyment of riding a properly geared machine just to save yourself a few extra miles of wear on chain and sprockets, (assuming that were even true, which after 9 Ducatis of my own, I seriously doubt)?

Try it. If you don't find it a big help, you'll be out $38- plus a chain adjustment... You'll thank us later.

[metroplex]

I'm already used to the stock 15T and the temperament of the 696. I'll start another thread on the 14T to get more info (which sprocket to buy, how to do the change) before I make a decision. I guess I'll have to re-align and re-adjust the chain, but I ordered the Motion Pro chain alignment tool ahead of time.

[metroplex]

It seems the 14T swap is very very simple, but how does it not require reprogramming the PCM/ECU to adjust the speedometer? What you're essentially doing is changing the final drive ratio from 3.00 (stock 15/45) to 3.21 (14/45). The OEMs generally choose numerically low final drive ratios on cars for better fuel economy to boost their CAFE. I'm not sure if motorcycle OEMs have an EPA mandated CAFE. On my cars, I do not like changing the rear axle ratio (RWD) because of fuel economy and potential for spinning the wheels easier.

Just so I have an understanding, the 14T would negate the need to use the clutch below 10 MPH for low speed stuff like Figure 8s and U-turns and that's about it? I know my 696 bucks like crazy when I let it run on its own power below about 7-8 MPH and I have to use a bit of clutch.

[Raux]

It seems the 14T swap is very very simple, but how does it not require reprogramming the PCM/ECU to adjust the speedometer? What you're essentially doing is changing the final drive ratio from 3.00 (stock 15/45) to 3.21 (14/45). The OEMs generally choose numerically low final drive ratios on cars for better fuel economy to boost their CAFE. I'm not sure if motorcycle OEMs have an EPA mandated CAFE. On my cars, I do not like changing the rear axle ratio (RWD) because of fuel economy and potential for spinning the wheels easier.

Just so I have an understanding, the 14T would negate the need to use the clutch below 10 MPH for low speed stuff like Figure 8s and U-turns and that's about it? I know my 696 bucks like crazy when I let it run on its own power below about 7-8 MPH and I have to use a bit of clutch.

no problem with the speedo because the speedo is measured on the rear wheel not engine speed.

You should always feather the clutch for figure 8s and U-turns. it's a normal low speed maneuver.