What the Eurocrats are up to now!

[Curmudgeon]

Sorry I can't give you the links as they are industry only and secured..., but you get the idea. OK for bikes IMO but will make a moped nosebleed expensive probably!
 
"Teacup-Sized Brake Device on Motorbikes Could Save Hundreds of Lives
  [Source:S&D Group at European Parliament]
 
 
S&D Euro MPs Monday backed an EU proposal to fit motorbikes over 50cc with anti-lock brakes (ABS) in order to save the lives of hundreds of riders every year. The rules will also affect scooters, quad bikes and mopeds. After the vote in the European Parliament's internal market committee on a regulation that covers both safety and vehicle emission standards, S&D group negotiator Kerstin Westphal said: "This EU regulation is a life-saver. The ABS system for motorbikes and scooters is no bigger than a teacup – but it will saave the lives of 500 bikers a year." Despite an overall fall in road deaths last year, motorbike deaths rose by about 10%. Studies show that ABS could cut the death toll by 20%. Available video includes an edited package."

[ungeheuer]

"EU proposal to fit motorbikes over 50cc with anti-lock brakes".......    "The rules will also affect scooters, quad bikes and mopeds."

May effect the affordability of mopeds over 50cc.   Most mopeds are 49cc for long established legislative reasons and so wont be included in this latest edict.

I love what they do with stats though  .  Overall road deaths fell, whilst at the same time motorbike rose deaths rose by 10%.   What they fail to report is whether the number of registered motorcycles and/or motorcycle kms ridden in the same period increased.  If there are 20% more motorcycles on the roads, then a 10% rise in motorcycle road deaths could be following the general trend of falling road fatalities. 

[thought]

I think the last time I saw a mention of this was that by (projected) 2017 ABS was going to be mandatory in bikes all over the EU.

[polivo]

According to all the research that has already been done in this field, "risk compensation" tells us, their logic is flawed. Although the intent is well meaning.

" Anti-lock brakes. There are at least three studies which show that drivers' response to antilock brakes is to drive faster, follow closer and brake later, accounting for the failure of ABS to result in any measurable improvement in road safety. The studies were performed in Canada, Denmark and Germany.[1] [2] [3]

A study led by Fred Mannering, a professor of civil engineering at Purdue University supports risk compensation, terming it the "offset hypothesis". "

This is an intersting topic to me. Im an MSF instructor, and I always get students who asked about abs, and now traction control. It usually is phrased something like "Well since im a new rider.. do you think I should get one of those ABS and/or traction control equipmed bikes, so ill be safer?"

My answer is usually along the lines of, "well there are currently no studies to support or discount the benefit of either for 1st year rider specifically, there are a number of studies that suggest they make EXPERIENCED riders ride more dangerously due to risk compensation".  Therefore, I cannot fathom how a new rider would not be affected by the same phenomenon, likely moreso.

[Curmudgeon]

Hmmm...

These are Eurocrats..., and you expect them to make sense???!!!  They aren't elected and are not accountable and generally do whatever they fancy. Do you watch the news on the EC?

As for ABS, I have to take issue with just about everything you've said. I've had a few bikes with it. The only times I've ever had it kick in was at fairly low speed when turning and finding loose gravel in my path. Never needed it so far in a corner but am glad to have all the help I can get if I come upon a rock fall or wet leaves.

I certainly have never felt that ABS made me invincible, so I definitely don't ride any harder with it, nor would I when driving a sports car with it. NOT a big fan of dynamic stability controls though when they make a vehicle which doesn't handle properly when you turn it off, and yes, I've driven a few of those. It was my business.

[ducatiz]

I love what they do with stats though  .  Overall road deaths fell, whilst at the same time motorbike rose deaths rose by 10%.   What they fail to report is whether the number of registered motorcycles and/or motorcycle kms ridden in the same period increased.  If there are 20% more motorcycles on the roads, then a 10% rise in motorcycle road deaths could be following the general trend of falling road fatalities. 

It also does not take into account fault.

If someone is going around in a dump truck driving over bikers, ABS isn't going to help anything.

At least it's removable if you don't want it.  I would probably want it on my commuter bike or a cruiser, but not on a sport bike.

[polivo]

Hmmm...

I certainly have never felt that ABS made me invincible, so I definitely don't ride any harder with it, nor would I when driving a sports car with it. NOT a big fan of dynamic stability controls though when they make a vehicle which doesn't handle properly when you turn it off, and yes, I've driven a few of those. It was my business.

The numerous studies speak for themselves. They actually arent specific to ABS.. or even motorcycling in general.  There are several studies regarding seat belt, parachuting, etc, etc. It seems to be simply stated.. "the safer someone feels about performing an action.. the more likelier they are to perform it in a riskier fashion". One report i read (very interesting read) had NOTHING to do about mootorcycles at all. It was about the financial crisis. It summized that the banks were more than willing to generate massive sub prime loans because there was NO PERSONAL RISK. Why is a whole other story.  But the concepts remains the same. 

I remember reading one study conducted in germany, on a car livery fleet. They studied the affect that ABS had on their fleet vehicles, versus the non ABS vehicles.  After a 3 year study, you would assume there were LESS accidents on the ABS equipped vehicles? right?  Turns out the ABS equipped vehicles ha d a higher accident rate than the non equipnmed vehicles. Why? that part is up for debate.

[polivo]

Im all for technology, but what were dealing with is not technology.. but human behaviour.  How is that technology being used?  Do some reading on these topics
"risk compensation" "offset hypothesis".

[polivo]

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-balance-of-risk/

[ducatiz]

It's true and it's why I've always said cars should not have brakes at all.

[Curmudgeon]

At least it's removable if you don't want it.  I would probably want it on my commuter bike or a cruiser, but not on a sport bike.

Just a guess but I doubt you'd mind the ABS on the M796. It couldn't be less intrusive nor does it remove any feedback as far as I can detect. Of course, your mileage might vary. 

Before buying the bike I read every review and riding impression I could find in English or German. One reviewer who rides a lot harder than I was impressed with it on some greasy roads in the hills above Bologna in the spring and said he was glad he had it.

Whatever Ducati is using, it has nothing to do with the scary ABS on F800 series BMWs.  Don't ask...

[ducatiz]

I can totally see it being useful but I'd have to be convinced for the style of riding I'd be doing.  But if it's as you say, then it might work.

[polivo]

once again, im not saying these technologies dont work. They clearly do work. Its just that the intended result seems to be the exact opposite of whats showing up in the lab.  Sure, the vehicle is stopping in shorter distances, so possibly the driver doesnt die.. but there are now, higher fatalities to passengers or pedestrians due to the higher speeds the driver is perceived to be capable of safely handling.  Simply put.. the target moved, thats all. So is it safer? I guess that depends on who wound up in the ambulance. The driver, passenger or pedestrian.. lol

[thought]

I'm interested in seeing how much different the race abs that Honda is using in their cbr's is from the Ducati abs.  From what the reviewers are saying about that one system on the track, it's pretty much invisible and only kicks in once it's really needed.

[Curmudgeon]

In a quick search, found this interesting. Obviously nobody here has a death wish either. Think of granny pulling out of a side street on you!