New to lane splitting (tips?)

[ducatiz]

You offered it as if you thought it was relevant to the conversation.

Lanesplitting isn't "wildly unsafe".  In the context of motorcycling, it's another practice about the same as any other, and *safer* than sitting in the lines.  The CHP guidelines as mentioned above are quite good, and if you follow those and are paying attention, lanesplitting is a perfectly reasonable traffic strategy.  It is legally practiced pretty much everywhere else in the world, as well as in CA, without mass deaths due to the "wild unsafeness" of it.  It's pretty much only in the U.S. "land of the free" where it is prohibited.

PhilB

Riding in the US is unsafe because car drivers are unaware of the rules of the road and many bikers also are inexperienced and ignorant of the rules.  Riding in Italy was a lesson for me -- the other riders I talked to clocked thousands of miles per month easily.  I found this the rule more than the exception.  It's a shock when you meet someone with a bike with more than 10k miles on it.  Of the bikes I own, 5 of them were bought used with more than 6-7 years but fewer than 5000 miles.  A quick look on Ebay you see the same thing.

I say splitting is wildly unsafe because it goes beyond the regular unsafeness of riding in the US, and as the survey from Cali shows, almost half of Californians don't even know it's legal and 7% were willing to admit they had actively tried to kill uh.. stop someone from doing it.  7% were willing to admit it???  How many didn't?

I'm not saying don't do it.  I am saying just be aware that you are moving into a more aggressive area of riding, and by aggressive I mean you are entering an area where people will try to kill you for it.

[1KDS]

seven percent of vehicle drivers admit to having attempted to prevent it.

I don't live in SoCal or lane split for that matter but that pisses me off, 7% admitted to attempted murder?
I don't remember where i read it but I also read this stat recently, and the author of the article said something like, the next question should be
Q "Do you know it is legal for boats to be in the harbor at Long Beach?"
A "Really? I usually shoot at them with my RPG"

[jaxduc]

I usually shoot at them with my RPG"

[PhilB]

Riding in the US is unsafe because car drivers are unaware of the rules of the road and many bikers also are inexperienced and ignorant of the rules.  Riding in Italy was a lesson for me -- the other riders I talked to clocked thousands of miles per month easily.  I found this the rule more than the exception.  It's a shock when you meet someone with a bike with more than 10k miles on it.  Of the bikes I own, 5 of them were bought used with more than 6-7 years but fewer than 5000 miles.  A quick look on Ebay you see the same thing.

I say splitting is wildly unsafe because it goes beyond the regular unsafeness of riding in the US, and as the survey from Cali shows, almost half of Californians don't even know it's legal and 7% were willing to admit they had actively tried to kill uh.. stop someone from doing it.  7% were willing to admit it???  How many didn't?

I'm not saying don't do it.  I am saying just be aware that you are moving into a more aggressive area of riding, and by aggressive I mean you are entering an area where people will try to kill you for it.

Perhaps you should take up quilting.  I'm just short of 200K on my bike.

What the survey question shows is that while almost half don't know it's legal, most of those don't ever try to do anything about it.  And of the 7% that did admit of attempting to prevent it,, the vast majority of those don't do so by trying to hit the biker; they adjust lane postion to make it harder to get by them, but do not threaten or intend a collision.  In practice I see that happen a couple times a week, whereas in 25 years of regular riding in SoCal, splitting lanes regularly, I have seen attempted harm exactly twice.  And I've seen the aftermath of a bike getting rearended in stop-and-go traffic several times.

PhilB

[ducatiz]

Perhaps you should take up quilting.  I'm just short of 200K on my bike.

What the survey question shows is that while almost half don't know it's legal, most of those don't ever try to do anything about it.  And of the 7% that did admit of attempting to prevent it,, the vast majority of those don't do so by trying to hit the biker; they adjust lane postion to make it harder to get by them, but do not threaten or intend a collision.  In practice I see that happen a couple times a week, whereas in 25 years of regular riding in SoCal, splitting lanes regularly, I have seen attempted harm exactly twice.  And I've seen the aftermath of a bike getting rearended in stop-and-go traffic several times.

PhilB

I'd love to do quilting, but I spend too much time working, raising kids, drinking, traveling, shooting and riding.

"Most don't ever try to do anything about it".. that's right, and most people don't ever kill another human being, either, but people are still concerned about violent crime.  Fewer than 0.0005% of the population murders another human being, but we are all rightfully concerned about homicide.   (based on 16,000 murders per year average and a population of 300million)

Likewise, if 7% of car drivers self report that they actively tried to stop a bike from lane splitting, then it's reasonable to assume the real number is actually higher.  And given trying to stop a bike from lane splitting with your car is exceptionally dangerous to the rider, it's fair to say that lane splitting is an objectively dangerous activity. 

The probability of injury is low, but the risk is high. 

What's the real number of people who used their car to try to stop a motorcyclist from passing?  10%?  15%?

I call that attempted murder, or at least attempted assault.  I don't think I would have any trouble convincing a jury of the same thing.

[PhilB]

I'd love to do quilting, but I spend too much time working, raising kids, drinking, traveling, shooting and riding.

"Most don't ever try to do anything about it".. that's right, and most people don't ever kill another human being, either, but people are still concerned about violent crime.  Fewer than 0.0005% of the population murders another human being, but we are all rightfully concerned about homicide.   (based on 16,000 murders per year average and a population of 300million)

Likewise, if 7% of car drivers self report that they actively tried to stop a bike from lane splitting, then it's reasonable to assume the real number is actually higher.  And given trying to stop a bike from lane splitting with your car is exceptionally dangerous to the rider, it's fair to say that lane splitting is an objectively dangerous activity. 

The probability of injury is low, but the risk is high. 

What's the real number of people who used their car to try to stop a motorcyclist from passing?  10%?  15%?

I call that attempted murder, or at least attempted assault.  I don't think I would have any trouble convincing a jury of the same thing.

  Well, now that you have demonstrated a complete incapacity for responding to, or even grasping, any of the points I've made in this argument, and are merely repeating things I've already responded to, I guess I can give up on bothering anymore.  You haven't logically supported your points, and haven't even tried to refute mine, so I'll just declare myself the winner and move on.

Don't split if you find it too scary.  Meanwhile, those who wish to incraese their safety in heavy stop-and-go traffic, and/or wish to increase their transport efficiency in a manner that has been found to be acceptable everywhere except the Nanny States of America, should do so if they wish where it is legal (CA) and fight to make it legal elsewhere.

PhilB

[ducatiz]

  Well, now that you have demonstrated a complete incapacity for responding to, or even grasping, any of the points I've made in this argument, and are merely repeating things I've already responded to, I guess I can give up on bothering anymore.  You haven't logically supported your points, and haven't even tried to refute mine, so I'll just declare myself the winner and move on.

Don't split if you find it too scary.  Meanwhile, those who wish to incraese their safety in heavy stop-and-go traffic, and/or wish to increase their transport efficiency in a manner that has been found to be acceptable everywhere except the Nanny States of America, should do so if they wish where it is legal (CA) and fight to make it legal elsewhere.

PhilB

Perhaps you need to reread.  I replied to everything you said.

even your silly quilting comment.

It's not a rights issue.  It's not a nanny state issue.  It's not even really an issue.  It's just a change in the way some people would like to ride on the road.  That's all. 

...which I happen to agree with.

The same sort of people used to make the argument (oh, about 80 years ago) that we should drive on the right hand side of the road because it's safer -- drivers are on the outside rather than the inside and thus less likely to have their eyes dazzled by oncoming headlights...   

yeah.

Lane splitting would be very useful if it was legal everywhere.

However, saying it's not dangerous is absurd.  yet, I still do it.

7% of drivers admit to trying to stop (run over?) a biker who is trying to lane split. 
0.00005% of Americans are murderers.

Try to think....

about it.

[PhilB]

Well, no.  You have completely failed to address my points at all regarding the relative safety of lanesplitting vs. NOT lanesplitting, and how dangerous it is to sit in stop-and-go traffic.  You have completely failed to acknowledge the difference between blocking a lane (the great majority of attempts to stop a lanesplit) vs. vehicular assault (which you continue to falsely claim all attempts to stop a lanesplitter are).  Those are relevant points to the argument you have not replied to.

Fail.

PhilB

[ducatiz]

Well, no.  You have completely failed to address my points at all regarding the relative safety of lanesplitting vs. NOT lanesplitting, and how dangerous it is to sit in stop-and-go traffic.  You have completely failed to acknowledge the difference between blocking a lane (the great majority of attempts to stop a lanesplit) vs. vehicular assault (which you continue to falsely claim all attempts to stop a lanesplitter are).  Those are relevant points to the argument you have not replied to.

Fail.

PhilB

Sitting in traffic is dangerous.  Lane splitting is dangerous.  They are both risky activities.  I also didn't comment on your need to inhale and exhale. 

I do not address things that did not need addressing.

Thus...

Your fail, sir.

[ducpainter]

 

[jaxduc]

wish it was legal in florida 

[Privateer]

lot of good suggestion here.  Especially going slow as you want.  Move over for faster peeps and don't take it personal when that dude gets bent and goes around you because you held him up for 10 seconds.  Going slow gives the cars time to see you and generally they'll give you room if you give them time to react.  I laugh when I talk to kids who split way too fast and wonder why people don't move over.

My only tip to add is I always wave to people who make even the slightest effort to give me room.  Wave, thumbs up, peace sign, whatever.  The more you acknowledge their effort, that you noticed it, and that indeed you are a soft squishy human being inside that gear, the less likely they are to dehumanize us and make rash decisions.  Rash decisions like running us over or clipping you as you go by.

I've also been known to give people non-verbal feedback when they cross the double yellow (finger wag), talk on their phone (hang up your phone hand sign), or text/data on their phone (point at my eyes through my visor and point forward).  Never had any retaliation from these, but at least it lets them know one person noticed them being a shithead.

Oh, and watch out for tourists (rental cars and out of state plates).  Some of them think they're the highway patrol and will pinch your lane.  I'd never do it, but I know of people who cause many rental cars to be returned missing one mirror.

[bdub]

Soooooooooo, lane splitting is for when traffic is stopped or can you do it when everyone is moving? I ask because I have never done it (splitting). If you are going along the interstate and ride between cars is that splitting or just stupid? Just askin'

[Privateer]

Soooooooooo, lane splitting is for when traffic is stopped or can you do it when everyone is moving? I ask because I have never done it (splitting). If you are going along the interstate and ride between cars is that splitting or just stupid? Just askin'

lane sharing can be done at any time, done legally when done 'safely.'  'Safely' is up to the officer's discretion.

In the morning I've been known to lane share at highway speed.  In the afternoon traffic heavier and I normally do it only up to 50 or so.

I try to only do it at highway speeds if I'm removing myself from an unsafe situation.  Like if I'm feeling boxed in or someone's tail gating me.  There have been many times, conversely, where I've not passed someone who is driving erratically because I don't want them side swiping me when I lane-share by them.

splitting/lane sharing is more art than science.  to me, the 'feel' of traffic is different in different spots, and some place I don't feel comfortable doing it, even if there's room.  Near interchanges especially as people are changing lanes a lot, or in areas that are prone to accidents.

If I'm in completely unfamiliar territory I generally don't do it at all unless traffic is completely stopped or stop/go/slow crawl.  And even then I'm only at 10-15 mph.

Keep in mind lane sharing does not exempt one from the law.  You're still bound by speed limits, basic speed law, lane controls (no crossing solid lines), and signaling.  Not saying you will get a ticket for those, but blatantly flaunting them in front of highway patrol will generally get you a ticket for something.

note: this is all based on California driving.  your (general you) mileage may vary.

[bdub]

Thanks for clearing that up more for me. I've read about and even wanted to try it, but Virginia has a none happy view of that. There are times when I'd like to blast between cages but due to fear and my feeling that it's illegal in VA I choose  not to.