Showa Blues, part 1&2.

[DarkMonster620]

Hello,

Excellent write up; I must perform maintenance to my Marzocchi forks and would like to replace the fork legs or axle holder to one from a M695 that is black, my OEM are silver.

I saw that you mention to polish them, but, never saw how you took them out.

Thanks for any clarification on this subject.

Carlos

[MonsterHPD]

Hi, Carlos.
I´m not quite sure I get your question; the tutorial is only valid for Showa adjustable forks; I´ve never had reason to work on the Marzocchis and the non-adjustable Showas are pretty much beyond salvation other than regular service and fresh oil.

If there´s anything I can help you with, just let me know; as is I´m a bit unsure exactly what I can do.

Kind regards,
Torbjörn.     

[DarkMonster620]

Hi, Carlos.
I´m not quite sure I get your question; the tutorial is only valid for Showa adjustable forks; I´ve never had reason to work on the Marzocchis and the non-adjustable Showas are pretty much beyond salvation other than regular service and fresh oil.

If there´s anything I can help you with, just let me know; as is I´m a bit unsure exactly what I can do.

Kind regards,
Torbjörn.     

This is the part I want to take off and replace with another one, but, not even on the Marzocchi manual says how to do it:


Fig1bBottomplugremoval

[MonsterHPD]

Hello Carlos.
I´m still not quite sure I ralize what you are intending, but if you want to change the fork bottoms of your Showa forks, this is what a set from a crashed 1000DS Monster looked like when I took them apart to see how it worked out: just use a screwdriver or something as a handle through the hole in the fork leg, and wind it out. These came apart real easy, maybe a bit of heating to break any loctite could ne required.    

 

[Speeddog]

There's a grub-screw to be removed first, yes?

[MonsterHPD]

So I thought too, but not on this one; not a trace of any grub screws, nor of a place it could have fallen out from. Not much trace of any of Loctite either, as a matter of fact, practically no torque necessary to unscrew the fork leg from the fork foot (fork foot ...? don´t know the proper expression for that part   ).  

Anywy, maybe something to be added to the "Check list" when servicing the forks?  

[Speeddog]

I looked at two pair of Showa adjustable 43mm forks, they both had grub screws on the inside of the fork 'foot'.
About an inch above the 'showa' lettering.

They were '00 and '02 vintage forks.

[MonsterHPD]

Well,
it seems Showa found a way to save 0.002cents / fork set by leaving the grub screw out.
The lower leg is from a ST4S appr. 2002, and the loose foot from an S2R1000 Monster, appr. 2007.

I was surprised, and a little worried, at how easily the fork tube unscrewed from the fork foot.    

[DarkMonster620]

Hello Carlos.
I´m still not quite sure I ralize what you are intending, but if you want to change the fork bottoms of your Showa forks, this is what a set from a crashed 1000DS Monster looked like when I took them apart to see how it worked out: just use a screwdriver or something as a handle through the hole in the fork leg, and wind it out. These came apart real easy, maybe a bit of heating to break any loctite could ne required.   

   

Thanks, I will try

[impulsive_duc]

...  if you want to change the fork bottoms of your Showa forks, this is what a set from a crashed 1000DS Monster looked like when I took them apart.

 just use a screwdriver or something as a handle through the hole in the fork leg, and wind it out. These came apart real easy, maybe a bit of heating to break any loctite could ne required.

MonsterHPD, I wanted to let you know I attempted this with my Marzocchi 43mm lowers (from the conversion project on Ducati.MS .)

After removing the setscrew, the fork stanchion was completely immovable in the foot. I attempted heating in flame (stove had to do) until sizzling/smoking hot, then tried your method. It was wedged in solid. Looking through the setscrew hole, there was evidence of oxidization/rust. I suspect this is impedes removal of the foot.

My machine shop+sportbike shop says although they have a special jig for this, they do not attempt it routinely because of the difficulty. (labor = cheaper to get a new lower)
The specialist suspension shop says they do not use a vice, and instead have to use a hydraulic press to hold the stanchion in place. They then use a breaker bar on the foot. (labor + specialized tooling)

I suspect swapping feet is too difficult for the average person, and your Monster was an exception.

To Carlos: do not fret. The Marzocchi and Showa lowers seem interchangeable. If the lower tubes are of similar length, you can swap the bushings between the two and they will fit. Marzocchis utilize a thinner bushing than the Showas. Please see my post here:


http://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport-classic/393201-project-100-ohlins-bust-gsxr-cartridges-sc1000-stock-marzocchi-forks-3.html#post3944474

[DarkMonster620]

Ok, but, what I wanted to do was to swap the fork lowers from a Marzocchi used in a M695, that are black to my Marzocchi that are "regular" aluminium colour . . . ended up leaving as is for the exact same reasons impulsive_duc encountered

[impulsive_duc]

... the tutorial is only valid for Showa adjustable forks; I´ve never had reason to work on the Marzocchis and the non-adjustable Showas are pretty much beyond salvation other than regular service and fresh oil. ...

I believe that may no longer be accurate. I have found a 10mm compression adjuster screw that would allow Marzocchi users to use the GSXR conversion from the article you published. However, that specialized bolt would need to be purchased, and I am not sure of the cost.

You seem like you have the machining skill (and lathe) necessary to create such an item yourself. Would you be interested in attempting it? I can provide you an engineering schematic of the "theoretical" adjuster screw.

I will continue to investigate the commercial option.

[MonsterHPD]

[I suspect swapping feet is too difficult for the average person, and your Monster was an exception.

To Carlos: do not fret. The Marzocchi and Showa lowers seem interchangeable. If the lower tubes are of similar length, you can swap the bushings between the two and they will fit. Marzocchis utilize a thinner bushing than the Showas. Please see my post here:

You may be right, I´ve only ever tried that one fork. There was also no set screw on these forks.

If I remember correctly, all the 50mm/54 mm showas (i.e., Monster tc.) has the upper bushing with 1.0 mm wall thickness, and all the others (SBK´s) use the one with 1.5 mm wall thickness. Did confuse me once when pre-ordering parts.

[MonsterHPD]

I believe that may no longer be accurate. I have found a 10mm compression adjuster screw that would allow Marzocchi users to use the GSXR conversion from the article you published. However, that specialized bolt would need to be purchased, and I am not sure of the cost.

You seem like you have the machining skill (and lathe) necessary to create such an item yourself. Would you be interested in attempting it? I can provide you an engineering schematic of the "theoretical" adjuster screw.

I will continue to investigate the commercial option.

You have a mail

[teamamerica]

Wow this is a great tutorial.  Thanks for documenting this as I would not have contemplated this otherwise. 

I'm thinking of trying this since I have access to a mill and lathe, and I scored some 900SS adjustables that need to be rebuilt, they don't rebound well and I think they may have the original fluid.   I have yet to order the K Tech parts.  I'm going to be putting this on my M620, which has the standard non-adjustable Marzocchis.  I'm new to playing around with the suspension.  I'd like to have all if not most of the tools needed ready when I attempt this. 

What is the size of the reamer that you used in 4f to clean out the burrs from the dimple drill out? Are there any other reamers needed?

I'm also thinking about using linear ohlins springs vs. race tech 0.85 rate springs, but have not decided just yet.  Any comments or advice regarding which springs to use?

Also what brand and viscosity oil did you use? 5W or 7.5W?