696 vs. 796: What makes the difference in seat height?

[daesharacor]

Hey all.

I'm in the process of deciding between a 696 and 796.

I see that the 696 has a seat height of 30.5", while the 796 has a seat height of 31.5".

I bought a Ninja 250 for my wife in 2008 (the new style) and it had the same seat height.  I'm 6'1", and although I had a blast stealing the 250 and throwing it around like a plaything in the corners, it felt a bit short for me.

I'm worried that I'd feel the same way with a 696.  The 796 seat height is similar to my race bike's (SV650) 31.5", which is very comfortable for me, and halfway to my screamer (Daytona 675) seat height of 32.5".


So.

My question is this:

What makes the seat height difference between the 696 and 796?  Is it suspension?  Seat geometry?  Frame/subframe geometry?

I am not looking for a bunch of responses telling me to go for the 796 because it's more powerful, better looking, etc etc.  I've read plenty of those flame wars (I mean, debates).  I have powerful bikes, this is not going to be it.  This is going to be my fun lightweight country twisty roads type bike.

If I could get a 696 and either adjust suspension, tires, wheels, seat, etc. to get up to 31.5", I'd feel a little better.  Any thoughts?

Thanks guys.  (and gals).

[stopintime]

I believe the seat shape is a little different - less sliding forward on the 796/1100 - also maybe a height difference, but wait for others to confirm.

The shock to swingarm clevis can be changed. The 796/1100 clevis should get you the height you want. Again, wait for confirmation (I'm an S2R rider)

[thought]

It's the rear clevis mostly I believe.  A lot of 696 owners buy the m1100 clevis in order to raise their bike, I believe it's pretty cheap.

Have you sat on both yet?

[daesharacor]

Have you sat on both yet?

No, I've only sat on the 1100 (The only one my tiny Ducati dealer has on the floor).  It felt normal to me.

I will investigate the 796/1100 clevis, thank you.  Is this an aftermarket part, or something I would get through Ducati?


Does anybody have any thoughts or personal experience with the 696 seat height being too low?

[thought]

You can find the m1100 clevis either direct from ducati or used.  Offhand, I know that Raux has done it and is happy with it... there are several seat height threads in the accessories forum, you should take a look in there. 

[freeclimbmtb]

I'm 5'6" and have had both a 696 and now a 796 (i put about 8000 miles on each) The 696 had the comfort touring seat on it but even still had a steep angle that tended to smush the "fellas" into the tank.  ESPECIALLY with a passenger.  The 796 has a more sculpted seat that allows you to sit farther back, even without the extra gel of the touring seat, i find the 796 much more comfortable (I rode from San Diego to San Francisco and back in 2 and a half days with no comfort issue)  That being said, I am finding myself wishing I had sprung for the 1100 now, not for the power, but for the suspension adjustability. (and the dry clutch  )

As for the actual height.  I can flat foot the 796 if I'm wearing work boots, the 696 I could in riding boots.  but I am also about 6 inches shorter than you.  So I could easily see you being more suited to the height of the 1100 over the 696, the 796 IMHO is a far better motorcycle on a number of levels, but for what you want, a raised 696 might be just what your looking for.  (the speed of a tire change...and never having to mess with the chain angle across the DSS was worth the $1000 in initial cost for me hands down.)  Hope this helps.

[Curmudgeon]

Don't forget the 796 bars and riser too which are even 20mm higher than the 1100 evo! 

A Sargent seat will also get you to 31.9 and be flatter, so less tendency to jam your jewels. 
http://www.sargentcycle.com/ducws6961000.htm

[thought]

The risers/seat shouldnt be an issue if he buys a post '11 696.  I believe that all of the monsters got upgraded to the new seat/risers for all the 2011+ models.

If you're looking at a used pre '11 696 then there will def be differences.  However, you can purchase a 796 seat and risers for cheaper than a Sargent I think.

[daesharacor]

Thanks for the replies, all.

I will consider all of this during this research phase of my purchase... I'm so torn between the 6 and 7.  I figure by the time I get a higher seat, SSS conversion, etc... Might as well have gone with a 796.

Except I don't like the lack of frame color options... Red doesn't suit me, but oh well.

[Curmudgeon]

Except I don't like the lack of frame color options... Red doesn't suit me, but oh well.

Besides more torque, the 796 ABS has a lot of additional content for the slight increase in MSRP. Makes the ABS essentially "free". If you don't like red, get a body kit which works with the frame. There are a few cheaper ones which do. I got a Pantah because I looooved my Pantah. Mach 1, IOM and Corse also work IMO. Matter of taste of course.

[Raux]

take it apart and paint it not that bad  



you can confirm this with a tape measure, but think the 696 forks are a bit shorter than the 796/1100, but still can be pushed into the clamps a bit to add height to match the 1100 clevis ($20 from Ducati)

The clevis is a breeze to install as is pushing the forks through a bit. although i went with a complete upgrade to 1198 forks which are significantly longer.

all in all i raised my bike a lot between the longer forks, clevis, higher preload on rear spring, and touring seat.

then going aftermarket Style and Performance rearsets and below the triples clipons... yeah not much standard on sitting position on mine.




With bars it would be WAY better than stock for comfort. and may have to go to them as I'm having hand/wrist troubles this winter (non-riding related).

Alll in all, I like the taller sitting position and improved ground/cornering clearance.

for reference I'm 5'10 with a 32" inseam

[daesharacor]

take it apart and paint it not that bad 

Hmmm.  I suppose that is an option... I only took the subframe off of my SV, I never got it all the way down to the frame.  A new project is a good one, right?

all in all i raised my bike a lot between the longer forks, clevis, higher preload on rear spring, and touring seat. (and rearsets, and clipons, etc)

What would you say the bill was on all that?  Ballpark, obviously.  You present an excellent argument for a 696, sir.

And thank you all for your comments, I really appreciate it.

[craig697]

hey, I have a 010 696 and a 07 s2r1k, the 696 is a fun light bike but at my height 6'2" I find on long rides with stock bars and pegs I get cramping in my hip flexors. Even if I stop every hour after 3 hours or so the riding position is a little cramped. The extra height of the s2r which I think is similar to the 796 makes a big difference on long rides

[thought]

Thanks for the replies, all.

I will consider all of this during this research phase of my purchase... I'm so torn between the 6 and 7.  I figure by the time I get a higher seat, SSS conversion, etc... Might as well have gone with a 796.

Except I don't like the lack of frame color options... Red doesn't suit me, but oh well.

I mentioned the 696 stuff earlier because I thought you were pretty set on it... but if it were up to me, I would just get the 796 and be done with it.  If you were buying a used 696, it makes a lot more sense to mod it to your liking as you can find them pretty cheap now, but if you're buying new... it's a lot easier generally to buy what you want from the start.

I went from the sv to a 796 too and the 796 handles even better with around the same power... I think you can easily still get that back country road type feeling you're looking for in it.  The only real annoyance I had with it was with the size of the tank.  The sv's tank lasted a lot longer.

[Raux]

cost wise...
with my bad memory
forks 600
triples 500
clevis 20
rearsets 500
front rotors 350

to do it with M1100 forks would be the better way
forks 3-500 on  ebay
clevis 20

that's all that's needed for that swap

my 1198 fork swap made things very complicated. special rotors, new triples, etc