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Author Topic: monster for a returning rider  (Read 28154 times)
Duchess
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« on: March 18, 2012, 11:39:13 AM »

Hi, I'm female, 50+, returning to motor cycling after taking 25 years off to have and raise my family (bikes and babies don't mix, is my philosophy). Anyway, the kids are out on their own, and the spouse is an ex-spouse, so time for fun.

My previous biking experience was about 10 years with a series of Hondas, culminating in the 80's with CB750 F1 and F2. The latter got re-built into a Rickman Endurance replica frame so I got used to light weight, precise handling and brembo brakes. (http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/rickman/Rickman_CRE_Kit_Mexico_3.htm)

Any who, I'm looking at Monsters and appreciate any advice on selecting between them.

What I'm looking for:
- occasional commmute - I do 14 miles each way, in pretty much nose to tail traffic unless I go in super early. The first 5 miles is a twisty road that follows a creek, and also has a lot of hazards - other traffic, school age drivers, school bus, deer, wet leaves, ... depending on season
- weekend cruises - there is a local bike club I can join. They do day rides. Most of the bikes are H-D or Japanese cruisers, but one of the other girls has an S2
- occasional weekends away - I live within weekend cruising distance of Gatlinburg TN, the Smoky's, Asheville NC, Tail of the Dragon NC, ...

I drive very conservatively - don't want to pop wheelies, or live at the red end of the rev band.

I probably will relocate to the PNW at some point, and would love to tour the coast, the cascades, down to California, upto Canada. etc. by motor cycle.  That may well be a few years from now, and could be a different bike, but my personality is one where I like to "buy right" the first time, and keep for years (my 911 is 11 years old now, going on for 12 and I fully intend to keep it a lot longer ...and you don't want to ask how old my stereo is ..)

Comfort and Fit:
The 696 fits me - that was the one I felt most comfortable on. My dealer says he can adjust the 796 to fit the same as the 696 with the lower seat. Then I got side tracked into reading reviews of the 1100e and thinking "well, its only a couple of grand more, and I get more power, lower down. If the dealer can adjust the 796 to fit, he probably can do the same for the 1100e....

Weight:
For the past 10 years my bikes have had names like "Scott CR1" and "Cervelo S2" and weigh in at the 16 to 17lbs wet mark... I can pick them up with one hand. I look at reviews of H-D's and think "there is no way I could maneuver a bike that weighs 550 or 600 lbs. I have a porsche if I want something that heavy ... it has 4 wheels and a reverse gear !"  The 3 Monsters seem to weigh pretty much the same - the 696 a little lighter, but probably pretty close to the other two if spec'd with ABS.

Tractability in traffic:
Is there much difference between the bikes when used in city and town ?  The 1100e seems to have a lower torque and power range, but both it and the 796 are criticised in the reviews for "tall gearing" (rear sprocket 45 compared to 39 on the 696).  Does remapping the ECU smooth out the low end or make it worse ?  How is the clutch on the 1100e compared to the APTC clutch on the other two ?

Safety:
The toys increase - 696 ABS optional, 796 ABS std, 1100e ABS and DTC std ... but do they really make a difference ?  Do the toys increase service costs and compromise reliability ( I have fried the electrics on a bike on a wet ride before, and its not fun ..)

Pretty:
My monster has to be pretty ! (sorry to the guys here, but it just does !)  I like the white tank/red frame option on the 796. The red tank/white stripe/red frame on the evo isn't bad either. I don't want to drop $$ on the Monster Art options, though.

Noise levels:
Does adding the Termi slip on's make the Monster unbearably loud ?  I like the "look" but if they the noise is going to get me censured by the neighborhood I'd just as soon stay "stock", unless there is a resonable gain in performance, durability or tractability over the stock pipes.

Mods:
Apart from termi's, frame/fork/axle sliders, rear fender eliminator kit - what are the "must do" mods for comfort and safety. Like, do the mirrors work, or do I have to swap out to get ones that don't have blind spots, and don't blurr up for half the rev band ?

Budget:
I'm in the relatively fortunate position that I can afford to buy the bike that's right for me. Not that money is no object, but its more a case of I'm limited by what is sensible to spend, rather than a specific $$ amount. Is there a big jump in running costs (gas, service, insurance, tires, .. ) between the monsters ? 

Sorry - a lot of questions in one post, so bear with me and give me your thoughts.  Should I go with the 696 as it is the best fit, cheapest, can be had with ABS. Or is the 796 worth the step up for the extra power, despite being compromised by the taller gears ? If I go all out and get the 1100e, would that be "too much bike" for 90% of what I want to do ?

Thanks,
Duchess
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WarrenJ
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2012, 12:10:54 PM »

Welcome - You pose a great set of questions.  I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the new Monsters but I'm sure some great observations are heading your way.  I'm a few months short of the half century mark and started riding 5 years ago.  After learning on an '85 Nighthawk for a year, I found a 2000, 750 Monster and for where I am as a rider, it has been an ideal bike.  I hope you find a Monster to suit you.
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2012, 12:57:53 PM »

All of your questions leads up to the big one - which will make you smile most?

Every little detail is either taken care of by Ducati or will be taken care of by the dealer - with or without our help waytogo

I suggest we take turns answering one question each. Who's first?
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2012, 01:15:24 PM »

Comfort and fit:
There's a clevis at the bottom/rear of the shock. It can be replaced by one from the 696 to lower a 797 or 1100. Of course, a seat might also be in order. The front is lowered by letting the fork up through the steering head triples.
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 01:36:09 PM »

 I had a 696 for two and a half years.  I think it is an ideal bike for shorter riders.  With your experience I would certainly go for the 796 or 1100.

I lowered my first bike, but wasn't really happy with the results.

The 696 is fine in stop and go traffic.  It is not a great highway bike because of windblast, but that can vary from rider to rider.

As far as mods, the sliders are an excellent idea.  I found the mirrors to be crappy, so I replaced them with CRGs.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 02:55:58 PM by RC Fan » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2012, 02:06:19 PM »

Well congrats first of all on choosing a Ducati, let alone a monster. Also id like to say how up to par you are with what your going to be purchasing, most folks just run out and buy something.
Termis are not horribly loud, loud enough to hear the bike and loud enough to piss off the right person, but termis are THE exhaust for ducatis, there are even threads on this website to quiet up the termis if need be. The other noise maker from Ducati is the dry clutch which is not available on newer monsters so no worry there.
Tailchops are not NEEDED but it cleans up the rear a lot more and gets rid of the infamous "beer tray"
I have CRG bar end mirrors on mine, and although when i purchased the bike with them already mounted i thought i would hate them, but ended up loving the heck out of them.
Another thing to bring up that most people tend to over look. A lot of folks don't ride bikes for gas mileage but if you do for some reason have to commute with the bike its good to know the numbers.
1100 33mpg
796 42mpg
696 50mpg
All in all stopintime nailed it
What bike makes YOU the happiest, test ride them, see how they feel, how the react, how you sit fit while cornering. May i also add the 1100 is a BIG bike, and since you don't seem so content on being crazy i think the 796 to 696 would be a better option. Good luck with your purchase, we are glad to have you here, any more questions ask! and most importantly, be ready to have your life changed for the better, let us know what you get!
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2012, 03:14:46 PM »

Thanks everyone. It is so nice to be welcomed into "the family" (said, of course in a Marlon Brando/Don Corleone/Godfather accent).

@stopintime:
Thanks for the hint on replacing the clevis pin - I'll pass that onto my sales guy. This dealership is new to Ducati, which makes them both a little inexperienced, but also very interested to make quota and sell bikes. They are offering up the lower seat which drops ride height by 20mm, but didn't mention the clevis trick. If the same lowering can be achieved without the $250 seat, then that is better !  I'm not tiny (150 lbs, 5' 8", 30 inseam) but I do like to be able to get both feet on the ground. I needed a mounting stool to get on the Multistrada !  The 696 just "fit".

@Supraguy74:
Gas mileage is a good tip also - only 33 for the 1100e, with a tiny gas tank,  is a strike against. Not so much on the commute (2x14 miles = 28 a day, so say a gallon, so say 3 trips before fueling. Yikes !) but that would limit weekend cruising - looking for a gas station every 100 miles would be annoying.  Is the 33 an "all in" gas mileage ? would it do better on a gentle cruise ?
On the same lines, I just e-mailed my insurance broker for quotes on the different models. At least I'm 50+, but the evo will probably be a step up compared to the others.

I have a couple of weeks to get my thoughts in order before the dealer gets their test ride bikes ready (they were caught unprepared by the spring coming a month early) so please keep the suggestions coming so that I'm properly prepped for my "smile test" :-)

@several of you - CRG bar ends go on the list ! 

Keep it coming! - Duchess

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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2012, 03:29:34 PM »

ABS and DTC - for your described riding style - probably not required, but suddenly it's gravel you brake on and then ABS has paid for itself in one go. DTC - not so much.

Noise: slip ons and neighbours? It's like "ah, she's home" not like "ARGH, THAT WOMAN IS HOME"  Cool

Investigate budget, mileage, insurance, color options, mods and anything else you can think of, but wait for the test rides to decide what your feelings are telling you.

 Dolph
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2012, 03:37:52 PM »

Thanks everyone. It is so nice to be welcomed into "the family" (said, of course in a Marlon Brando/Don Corleone/Godfather accent).

@stopintime:
Thanks for the hint on replacing the clevis pin - I'll pass that onto my sales guy. This dealership is new to Ducati, which makes them both a little inexperienced, but also very interested to make quota and sell bikes. They are offering up the lower seat which drops ride height by 20mm, but didn't mention the clevis trick. If the same lowering can be achieved without the $250 seat, then that is better !  I'm not tiny (150 lbs, 5' 8", 30 inseam) but I do like to be able to get both feet on the ground. I needed a mounting stool to get on the Multistrada !  The 696 just "fit".

@Supraguy74:
Gas mileage is a good tip also - only 33 for the 1100e, with a tiny gas tank,  is a strike against. Not so much on the commute (2x14 miles = 28 a day, so say a gallon, so say 3 trips before fueling. Yikes !) but that would limit weekend cruising - looking for a gas station every 100 miles would be annoying.  Is the 33 an "all in" gas mileage ? would it do better on a gentle cruise ?
On the same lines, I just e-mailed my insurance broker for quotes on the different models. At least I'm 50+, but the evo will probably be a step up compared to the others.

I have a couple of weeks to get my thoughts in order before the dealer gets their test ride bikes ready (they were caught unprepared by the spring coming a month early) so please keep the suggestions coming so that I'm properly prepped for my "smile test" :-)

@several of you - CRG bar ends go on the list ! 

Keep it coming! - Duchess



well give you an example, i have a monster 01 monster 900sie with ducati performance ecu and pipes and a 4 gallon tank. I average around 130-140 pushing it with the light screaming at my face. thats right around 33mpg. My commute is 15 miles each way and it sucks filling up eery 3rd or fourth day. Just my 2 cents
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2012, 04:09:17 PM »

I ride a 2012 1100 evo,ive got termi exhaust,loud yeah not as loud as my harley was but they come with decible killers that you could leave in and take out when you feel like,ive got the 14 tooth front sprocket and i get about 38-40 miles to the gallon and i get on it when ever the mood strikes riding back and forth to work,I also have the CRG arrow mirrors but not in this picture. http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll131/07600cbrrr/72a31405.jpg, heres a pic of mine    
Thanks everyone. It is so nice to be welcomed into "the family" (said, of course in a Marlon Brando/Don Corleone/Godfather accent).

@stopintime:
Thanks for the hint on replacing the clevis pin - I'll pass that onto my sales guy. This dealership is new to Ducati, which makes them both a little inexperienced, but also very interested to make quota and sell bikes. They are offering up the lower seat which drops ride height by 20mm, but didn't mention the clevis trick. If the same lowering can be achieved without the $250 seat, then that is better !  I'm not tiny (150 lbs, 5' 8", 30 inseam) but I do like to be able to get both feet on the ground. I needed a mounting stool to get on the Multistrada !  The 696 just "fit".

@Supraguy74:
Gas mileage is a good tip also - only 33 for the 1100e, with a tiny gas tank,  is a strike against. Not so much on the commute (2x14 miles = 28 a day, so say a gallon, so say 3 trips before fueling. Yikes !) but that would limit weekend cruising - looking for a gas station every 100 miles would be annoying.  Is the 33 an "all in" gas mileage ? would it do better on a gentle cruise ?
On the same lines, I just e-mailed my insurance broker for quotes on the different models. At least I'm 50+, but the evo will probably be a step up compared to the others.

I have a couple of weeks to get my thoughts in order before the dealer gets their test ride bikes ready (they were caught unprepared by the spring coming a month early) so please keep the suggestions coming so that I'm properly prepped for my "smile test" :-)

@several of you - CRG bar ends go on the list !  

Keep it coming! - Duchess


« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 04:12:10 PM by wvcruiser » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2012, 04:37:03 PM »

Comfort and Fit:
The 696 fits me - that was the one I felt most comfortable on. My dealer says he can adjust the 796 to fit the same as the 696 with the lower seat. Then I got side tracked into reading reviews of the 1100e and thinking "well, its only a couple of grand more, and I get more power, lower down. If the dealer can adjust the 796 to fit, he probably can do the same for the 1100e....

A lot can be done. YOu can get the lower seat and possibly lower the suspension of the bike. Seat first, as lowering it does reduce ground clearance.

Weight:
For the past 10 years my bikes have had names like "Scott CR1" and "Cervelo S2" and weigh in at the 16 to 17lbs wet mark... I can pick them up with one hand. I look at reviews of H-D's and think "there is no way I could maneuver a bike that weighs 550 or 600 lbs. I have a porsche if I want something that heavy ... it has 4 wheels and a reverse gear !"  The 3 Monsters seem to weigh pretty much the same - the 696 a little lighter, but probably pretty close to the other two if spec'd with ABS.

While the 1100 will be heavier it's not epic. If a dealer is generous enough, perhaps you could go push around the various models in the show room to get a sense for it.

Tractability in traffic:
Is there much difference between the bikes when used in city and town ?  The 1100e seems to have a lower torque and power range, but both it and the 796 are criticised in the reviews for "tall gearing" (rear sprocket 45 compared to 39 on the 696).  Does remapping the ECU smooth out the low end or make it worse ?  How is the clutch on the 1100e compared to the APTC clutch on the other two ?

All Ducs are gear tall. It's a by product of emissions regs these days. It's very common for folks to change the final drive gearing. Dropping 1 tooth in front is the cheap easy way to do it. The better, but much more costly is to go up 3 teeth in back which 99% of the time requires a longer chain - hence the increased cost.

That gearing change makes makes any monster more pleasant in traffic or around the city. I've had a 620 and now have a 900 - both were improved with that type of gearing change.

APTC clutches are known for their light pull. For me, they are single finger save for in traffic. The APTC usually has a small friction zone, that's very close to the end of the levers travel. Some folks don't like that... I just dealt with it on my 620

Safety:
The toys increase - 696 ABS optional, 796 ABS std, 1100e ABS and DTC std ... but do they really make a difference ?  Do the toys increase service costs and compromise reliability ( I have fried the electrics on a bike on a wet ride before, and its not fun ..)

For a conservative rider - probably very little. Though you might save on insurance. Any additional systems like that are something else that can break - that's just the nature of any mechanical beast. Traditional brakes are very simple hydraulic pumps - ABS adds in sensors, a computer, valving etc etc. Add more complication and...

Also, at least with the monster, they found that a skilled rider can stop faster with out ABS when braking to the threshold. But for mere mortals ABS will stop faster.


Noise levels:
Does adding the Termi slip on's make the Monster unbearably loud ?  I like the "look" but if they the noise is going to get me censured by the neighborhood I'd just as soon stay "stock", unless there is a resonable gain in performance, durability or tractability over the stock pipes.

To get the most from a set of slip-ons like the Termis you need to map the ECU and let in more air (open air box). Then you can get a pretty good gain. If you just install the slip-ons there's really no power gain. You do loose a lot of dead weight though. The stock cans are like lead bricks. Both termi cans on my 900 are lighter than a single stock one.

Mods:
Apart from termi's, frame/fork/axle sliders, rear fender eliminator kit - what are the "must do" mods for comfort and safety. Like, do the mirrors work, or do I have to swap out to get ones that don't have blind spots, and don't blurr up for half the rev band ?
Get the suspension tuned for you. That will impact comfort, safety, tire life and handling.
If you want some viz but not the ugly plastic reflectors get some reflective wheel stripes. Lots of color choices to suit any look, even black that's near invisible in day light, and show up quite well when hit with a directional light like a headlight.
In that vein, you could get a helmet halo - reflective band that goes around the base of your helmet and is REALLY reflective.

Really there's no *musts* plenty of common ones like different mirrors



Budget:
I'm in the relatively fortunate position that I can afford to buy the bike that's right for me. Not that money is no object, but its more a case of I'm limited by what is sensible to spend, rather than a specific $$ amount. Is there a big jump in running costs (gas, service, insurance, tires, .. ) between the monsters ? 

Sorry - a lot of questions in one post, so bear with me and give me your thoughts.  Should I go with the 696 as it is the best fit, cheapest, can be had with ABS. Or is the 796 worth the step up for the extra power, despite being compromised by the taller gears ? If I go all out and get the 1100e, would that be "too much bike" for 90% of what I want to do ?

Thanks,
Duchess

Bigger will cost more. You'll spend more on gas and insurance for sure. Tires is really on you. Some folks thrash a tire in a couple thousand that others make last 10K.

Service will probably be on par for any of those bikes. They are all 2V, air cooled. Adding in ABS might make things more costly, but I really don't know. But model to model valve service will be the same.
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2012, 06:27:09 PM »

See my post on your intro thread.  Cool
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2012, 07:08:34 PM »



Noise: slip ons and neighbours? It's like "ah, she's home" not like "ARGH, THAT WOMAN IS HOME"  Cool


 Dolph

LOL - Thanks, stopintime !  That was worth a chuckle :-)
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2012, 07:38:48 PM »

Everything has been pretty much covered but I'll add a couple of thoughts;

For me, the power level of the 696 is OK.  Being shot (less tan 5'8'')  I would either go for the 696 or the 1100 to get the better suspension and other goodies. 

Even for the best riders ABS has an advantage when it comes to unexpected uneven traction surfaces or the occasional brain fart.

If you are light adjust sag first, the bike might turn out just low enough.  Then seat, then suspension link (clevis). 

Termis with baffles are pretty quiet.  The baffles are removable.
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2012, 07:49:40 PM »

I have the 1100 evo and while the small tank is an issue it is not as big an issue ad it may appear. I do approx 1000 to 2000 klm per month and I have just adapted.
Went on a ride with a 796 last week and he had no trouble with available power I dropped the front sprocket by 1 tooth and that made all the difference in the world in traffic.
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