monster for a returning rider

[Duchess]

Rules for long distance cycling : if your butt ain't happy, ain't nobody happy ....

... and I guess that goes for the lower back, too, in spades

I guess you could fit higher raise bars to the 796 to bring it closer to the evo, but I don't know about how to change peg positions ...

still debating stock cans vs. termi's, though ...

[Raux]

Rules for long distance cycling : if your butt ain't happy, ain't nobody happy ....

... and I guess that goes for the lower back, too, in spades

I guess you could fit higher raise bars to the 796 to bring it closer to the evo, but I don't know about how to change peg positions ...

still debating stock cans vs. termi's, though ...

keep it stock through the first service at 600 to get a feel. you might be totally happy

[Curmudgeon]

Rules for long distance cycling : if your butt ain't happy, ain't nobody happy ....

... and I guess that goes for the lower back, too, in spades

I guess you could fit higher raise bars to the 796 to bring it closer to the evo, but I don't know about how to change peg positions ...

still debating stock cans vs. termi's, though ...

Duchess,

Guess you didn't get my PM?

The 796 has a 20mm higher bar riser than the EVO. There is no other difference I'm aware of between the two but would need a tape measure to tell. Peg height looks about the same per the Ducati website. Any difference in foot control position is adjustable anyway.

Also sitting on the showroom floor with the spring preload set for ~ 225 lbs rather than your 150, your derriere is higher than it's going to be, so the angles are off.

Possibly the cases are ~ 1" wider??? Can't see how that would help your hip.

IMO, for what that's worth, you still will know little until you ride the bikes. The static seat/bar/peg relationship is no more relevant than it would be on a bicycle. You need to ride one of those too before you can fine-tune the fit. (Ask me how I know this privately.  )

As for performance mods, you might want to break the bike in first so that you know what, if anything, you need.

PS Consider a Rizoma bar and Sargent saddle. I'm done...

[El-Twin]

keep it stock through the first service at 600 to get a feel. you might be totally happy

This is what I'm doing. Seems like a sensible approach.

[twolanefun]

Duchess, I have to say that the EVO 1100 is cleary the best of the breed and clearly a Bike I lust after. Having said that, I have put some miles on every Monster model except the 400, not every year mind you, but every model and I have to tell you that my 02 M900 is my favorite and on a back country mountain road -those are the roads I travel - I'm more at home, more comfortable, and in the zone than I am on any of my other bikes. Not so on the track, but on those roads and on multiple day trips the M900 is great. Cycle cate rear sets, Gen Mar Bar Risers, Sargent seat, single rate rear spring, and Race Tech improved front end. BTW the City version also solves the luggage question and can be setup pretty nicely, they are getting old at this point but still some good examples around. Whatever you decide on I hope you have one hell of a good time and have that ear-to-ear grin that most of us treasure every time we get on our Monsters. - Gene

[xsephirot]

Duchess,

Guess you didn't get my PM?

The 796 has a 20mm higher bar riser than the EVO. There is no other difference I'm aware of between the two but would need a tape measure to tell. Peg height looks about the same per the Ducati website. Any difference in foot control position is adjustable anyway.

Also sitting on the showroom floor with the spring preload set for ~ 225 lbs rather than your 150, your derriere is higher than it's going to be, so the angles are off.

Possibly the cases are ~ 1" wider??? Can't see how that would help your hip.

IMO, for what that's worth, you still will know little until you ride the bikes. The static seat/bar/peg relationship is no more relevant than it would be on a bicycle. You need to ride one of those too before you can fine-tune the fit. (Ask me how I know this privately.  )

As for performance mods, you might want to break the bike in first so that you know what, if anything, you need.

PS Consider a Rizoma bar and Sargent saddle. I'm done...

According to cycle-ergo. At her 5'8 with 30 inch inseam:

1) Evo - 82degree knee angle with 29degree forward lean
2) 796 - 79degree knee angle with 24degree forward lean

TL;DR = 796 has a more upright position.

[Curmudgeon]

Hello Gene,

Out of curiosity just had to look yours up. Seems the specs of the M900ie and 796 are very close although they produce the power differently. Yours is 100cc larger with 9.2:1 compression ratio whereas the 796 does it with new heads and 11.1 +/- 0,2:1. If what ducpainter says about the change in the way Ducati quotes BHP, your 78 and my 87 are probably close. Rake and seat height are also the same but your rear tire is 170 vs 180. Curb weight is close too. Quite a few upgrades on the 796 from the EVO of course.

xsephirot,

That's a fun site http://cycle-ergo.com/ and I used it to build mine but not all their base numbers are accurate, so you have to adjust them. It was useful to compare with my current and older bikes and see where I'd be with a Sargent seat and Rizoma bar. At 5' 8" with a 29" inseam, after correcting for the site's seat height error, that yields a knee angle of 79 with a lean angle of 18 degrees with my mods. I could still use another 10mm of rise, but can't do that unless I swap out the 796 rise for an EVO clamp and then use a 30mm riser extender. Not worth the effort IMO. And..., higher than 10mm additional rise begins to block visibility of the instrument pod and might also begin to throw off the weight distribution.

[twolanefun]

With my exhaust and ecu I think it's a little stronger. However, HP is such a deceiving thing it's a shame so many are enamored with it. IMHO, it's more about balance, the whole package if you will. My S2R1000 is very quick on the track with all the mods I've made, it will keep this slightly overweight old fart in the hunt. But it really is at a disadvantage on the street, the power and light weight conspire to make the bike harder to ride quickly out in the mountains. If and when I get an EVO 1100, wheels/exhaust will remain stock and other mods will be minimal, I'll spend all that money saved for additional paint kits and luggage for trips. Hope to take the M900 out this week and for sure out to the MotoGP viewing at DucPond this weekend. - Gene

[Duchess]

Cool site - cycle-ergo !  

I think what I'm most sensitive to in the bike fit is the knee angle because of my arthritis in the hip. The evo has the most relaxed knee postion at 82 (vs 79 or 75 depending - they have the seat height wrong on the 796).

The degree of upper body lean (29 on the evo plays 24 on the 796 or 22 on the 696) really doesn't phase me, because I'm used to cycling (push bike style) either "in the drops" on my road bike, or down on my tri-bars on my triathlon bike - when you only have a 1/3 rd hp to play with, it pays to go aero :-) ... also, my last motorcycle, the Rickman CRE, had clip on's and a very aggresive "lay on the tank" position.

The "knee compressed, body upright" doesn't feel as comfortable as the "knee relaxed, body leaned forward" ...

I guess if leaning forward on the evo becomes a problem, I could always fit bar raisers (I think rizoma does them in varying heights).   But "fixing" the knee angle on the 796 would involve raising the seat, which would compromise me being able to reach the ground when stopped, or shifting the foot peg, which would be a pain ...

Would be fun to get a tape measure to my road bike (cycle) and see what the angles are - I had a professional "bike fit" done on that one ... but the aim was to get the best blend between aero position, power output and comfort ... so not necessarily what I would have if comfort were the only variable.

But this is FUN - I love being able to see the numbers and see that there is science behind the subjective fit.  Thank you again, xsephirot ...

[Duchess]

BTW, next steps for me:

This week I take my rider course, to re-qualify for my motor cycle endorsement. That is Wednesday evening class room, followed by 12 hours practical - 6 hours Saturday and 6 hours Sunday.

That will tell me if my hip is *really* up to a return to motorcycling, or if this just a day dream ..

Then back to the dealer for test rides - he has at least a 696 and a 1100 evo as demo bikes, and may have a 796 by then (he didn't have the 796 as a demo this weekend). Then its make my mind up time ...

Duchess

[stopintime]

If you need more factors.... aftermarket true rearsets can open up your hip joint.

Goes like this:
same height + rear = more open hip joint, but sharper knee angle
same height + forward = less open hip joint, but more open knee angle
lower height + rear = more open hip joint and same or more open knee angle

[twolanefun]

"lower height + rear = more open hip joint and same or more open knee angle" - Yep and my pegs did not drag any sooner when I was still using my M900 on the track. S2R stock pegs are in a different position entirely.  Gene

[Duchess]

Rear sets ... thanks, but probably not - don't want the extra cost, complexity, linkages, extended brake lines, ... yada yada yada ..

With 3 monsters and a couple of seat height options, I'll just get the monster that fits me, rather than getting a monster that doesn't fit and then adjusting the heck out of it...

As you have all pointed out, there is more than enough power in any of the three engines for what I want to do, so for me the choice is down to ergonomics and drivability. I'll get the Monster that fits me best and that I enjoy riding, and live with the engine that comes with it, rather than buying the engine, then having to futz with the bike to get it to fit..  ABS is available across the line and nothing else is a deal breaker for me at this stage.

Duchess

[Curmudgeon]

With my exhaust and ecu I think it's a little stronger. However, HP is such a deceiving thing it's a shame so many are enamored with it. IMHO, it's more about balance, the whole package if you will. My S2R1000 is very quick on the track with all the mods I've made, it will keep this slightly overweight old fart in the hunt. But it really is at a disadvantage on the street, the power and light weight conspire to make the bike harder to ride quickly out in the mountains. If and when I get an EVO 1100, wheels/exhaust will remain stock and other mods will be minimal, I'll spend all that money saved for additional paint kits and luggage for trips. Hope to take the M900 out this week and for sure out to the MotoGP viewing at DucPond this weekend. - Gene

Hello Gene,

Was just looking for a nimble package to replace my Pantah, but without the road race ergos. In the twisties, at least with me, torque in the midrange is what counts. So, sure, we were after the same target. 40 - 80 is still mighty brisk with mine and I'll not be needing to use 8,500+ much. 

Moto GP? Ask Donnie what he thinks about mine.  Say hello to Nathan too! I'm surprised so many of you can get a free pass on Easter! Will probably ride into Richmond in the AM and see if many bikes show for "Bikes in the Bottom". Would be at least a couple of hundred except for the holiday. If I get back in time, I'll watch on Speedvision. WSBK is more my thing and did watch Imola last Sunday. Checa did WELL.  Can't get the holeshot, so he made his pass at 2/3 in both motos and steamed away. There's a reason he has that title!

As I mentioned to you before, I have enough "go" and fueling is dandy from ~ 4,000 - 4,5000. Not bad but a touch lean below 4.000, so will get some Dynojet O2 optimizers if Donnie approves. The bike doesn't need to be any louder! Only wish Duc Pond weren't 140 miles from here. (I have GOOD roads though from here all the way out to the Blue Ridge Parkway!)

[dtarsky]

Well congrats first of all on choosing a Ducati, let alone a monster. Also id like to say how up to par you are with what your going to be purchasing, most folks just run out and buy something.
Termis are not horribly loud, loud enough to hear the bike and loud enough to piss off the right person, but termis are THE exhaust for ducatis, there are even threads on this website to quiet up the termis if need be. The other noise maker from Ducati is the dry clutch which is not available on newer monsters so no worry there.
Tailchops are not NEEDED but it cleans up the rear a lot more and gets rid of the infamous "beer tray"
I have CRG bar end mirrors on mine, and although when i purchased the bike with them already mounted i thought i would hate them, but ended up loving the heck out of them.
Another thing to bring up that most people tend to over look. A lot of folks don't ride bikes for gas mileage but if you do for some reason have to commute with the bike its good to know the numbers.
1100 33mpg
796 42mpg
696 50mpg
All in all stopintime nailed it
What bike makes YOU the happiest, test ride them, see how they feel, how the react, how you sit fit while cornering. May i also add the 1100 is a BIG bike, and since you don't seem so content on being crazy i think the 796 to 696 would be a better option. Good luck with your purchase, we are glad to have you here, any more questions ask! and most importantly, be ready to have your life changed for the better, let us know what you get!

Question: Is having a fender eliminator installed considered a "tail chop"? I know it removes parts of the rear, obviously the fender, but a true tail chop cuts some of the rear of the seat off too? Just wondering...