monster for a returning rider

[reebok]

Also if you were considering the comfort seat - good option - it raises the seat height by a little bit as well.
But for me meant a 800 klm ride didn't make me walk like john Wayne. Well worth it

[stopintime]

Question: Is having a fender eliminator installed considered a "tail chop"? I know it removes parts of the rear, obviously the fender, but a true tail chop cuts some of the rear of the seat off too? Just wondering...

The point is to remove stuff. The older bikes had to have metal cut - on the new bikes it's just plastic. It doesn't usually involve cutting into the seat.

[MadDuck]

Question: Is having a fender eliminator installed considered a "tail chop"? I know it removes parts of the rear, obviously the fender, but a true tail chop cuts some of the rear of the seat off too? Just wondering...

The true tail chop involved cutting off the metal tubing extensions of the rear frame. Those extensions supported what was known as a "beer tray".  The newer bikes don't come with that so all the fender eliminator is doing is cleaning up the license plate & turn signal appendage. In either case, as was said previously, no seat cutting is done.

[Duchess]

Well, plans move slowly forward -
...  invested the weekend at Balance Dynamics Motorcycle Training getting my MSF Basic rider certificate ....
...  which qualifies me to trade my Ohio Learners Permit for a full Motorcycle Endorsement, when I ....
...  fax the paperwork in then ....
...  get to the DMV and get my new license which is a ....

...  necessary prerequisite to be able to do test rides at the dealership, which is the next step to ....

...  choosing the right monster for me !

then its only a matter of ....
...  order lead times ....
...  dealer prep times ....
...  enduring through 1,500 miles of stalling and misery before it starts to get settled down and run properly ....

before I start to to enjoy it ....

  Duchess ...

[d3vi@nt]

Well, plans move slowly forward -

...  necessary prerequisite to be able to do test rides at the dealership, which is the next step to ....

Be sure to check your insurance; they may not cover you for any test rides and frequently the dealers don't, either. Kinda leaves a rider in a spot. Better to know beforehand then after the fact.

Sounds like you're in for some serious fun, though. 

[CrashVR]

I think you will enjoy the hell out of it immediately!!! And you can just know it will only get better with time...

[El-Twin]

...  enduring through 1,500 miles of stalling and misery before it starts to get settled down and run properly ....

before I start to to enjoy it ....

  Duchess ...

Believe me, there is a lot more to the first 1500 miles than stalling and misery. A lot of smiles will also be part of the mix.

Okay, there is a bit of crankiness to deal with, along with a few random stalls as you slow down for a stop sign (four times so far for me). But these minor annoyances are swept away by the performance of the machine. Once you are in the twisties, you will know that it was all worth it.

Here's an example for you: As I was sweeping along a canyon section this last weekend in perfect conditions, I realized that I was having a magical experience. And the bonus is all of those "That's a beautiflu bike" comments that seem like they're part of every fuel stop.

So just focus on the enjoyment. 

[Duchess]

Well,

What can I say. I finally got my test ride on an 2012 1100 evo and I hated it.

Nasty, brutal, lumpy, jerky, noisy, recalcitrant, stupid engine. Stalled on me twice. Wouldn't run clean at ANY rpm and was dire below 4,000. Then when I got it out onto the twisties and up above 60mph, I was totally disappointed in the handling. The thing would NOT lean into a bend - desired only to stay upright. And the wind buffeting, combined with the awful vibration through the bars made me desperate to get off and hand the keys back to the dealer.

No way, no how

:-(  Duchess

[Curmudgeon]

You rode an EVO fresh out of the crate with no miles I gather?  Not sure what was going on with the handling. Tire pressures maybe and stock suspension set-up isn't very good for a 150 lb. solo rider.

So what else did you ride? My 796 goes where you "think" it effortlessly. Even that took 100+ miles to smooth out. Each bike varies a bit though.

[Duchess]

It had 8 miles on it when I started, 58 when I finished. The handling was "firm" I guess. I had to use a lot of weight and "lean" to get it to corner. It just wanted to go in a straight line. Din't feel like tire pressure issue. Felt more like an over large rear tire.

What else did I ride ?

I took out a Triumph Street Triple R (675cc I-3) - what a difference !  Smooth linear engine response, virtually no vibration, "telepathic" handling, an LCD display that was legible in bright afternoon sun and had useful information on it, slick gear changes....  I was very tempted to buy the Brit, except I kept wanting to change up to 7th or 8th ... engine was smooth but way too rev happy

Finally (and here is the payoff I was saving until I slept on it) I rode an '04 S4R.  Not just any old S4R, this was a pretty one in blue and white, with wait for it, ONLY 27 miles on it !!!  Guy had bought it as a Museum piece and it had only been ridden from the dealer to the collectors garage, and then put on display.

What a difference between the S4R and the 1100evo. The S4R engine was running happily from the get-go, the handling was what I expected - a nice blend of stability in the straights and liveliness in the bends. I felt 'at home' on it within the first 100 yards. And I really like the blue/white compared to the red.

Just to make sure, I re-tested the 1100evo after riding the S4R - and yup, the evo was as nasty as ever, even though it now had more miles on it than the S4R.

So now is the question - would I be making a dreadful mistake to buy the S4R (dry clutch, no ABS, no DTC, and yet, so much better than the evo) and what should I look out for on a bike that has been sitting for nearly a decade ?

Duchess

[Curmudgeon]

At least an '04 might have a metal tank, so you wouldn't have the E10/water issue to deal with. 4V bikes are smoother but with a loss of character, and they go too fast... You'd have absolutely no clue how fast you're moving.  Really...

No idea how the bike was stored. At the least it needs new Kevlar belts, Rosso II's, and every fluid flushed and renewed. An S4R needs a Sargent seat too and it doesn't exactly match the cutouts in the tank. http://www.sargentcycle.com/ducwsmonster.htm

It's 4V and water-cooled, so expect ~ 50% more servicing cost every 6,000 rather than 7,500 miles. You need an experienced dealer for 4V too.

While not perfect, the new bikes have a lot of upgraded components and ought to be more reliable. Lots of people here can tell you where any weak points are in this vintage but you might need to ask in Tech.

Never bothered to ride an EVO myself, so I'm still having trouble understanding the handling you describe. My 796 is definitely "telepathic" and others here with new 796's have reported the same. After break-in, I also get insignificant vibration through my bars but the bike has a definite heartbeat. I also have 58 ft. lbs vs the Street Triple's 50 and much lower down the rev range. Do you really need more than 87 crank BHP in a 400 lb bike?

As you noted, Ducati DOES have very good, non-intrusive ABS.

Only you can decide. See what other input you get.

[muskrat]

I firmly believe you should buy what feels right.  I'm partial to my S4R with a metal tank of course but ABS and those goodies are a personal decision.  I grew up on dirt bikes so sliding my tires and locking my brakes doesn't make me panic unless there's a car in front. 

[Duchess]

Curmudgeon,

Thanks for the hints.  I've done a bit of digging and I see a couple of reasons why the S4R is so much better than the EVO ...
a) It has a full Sil Moto Exhuast with carbon pipes and remapped ECU ... that would be equivalent to the Termi's and explain a bit of the smoother running vs. the evo which has stock pipes, ECU and cat converters
b) The S4R has a 42T rear sprocket, vs the 39T on the EVO .. this is the final drive ratio you guys are emulating with the 14T front sprocket on the newer bikes (just a better execution to do it at the rear wheel)
c) The S4R has a marginally shorter wheelbase (56.7 vs 57.1) and Showa vs the Marzochi/Sachs on the evo ..

So its better breathing, better fueled and better geared ... and was originally a more expensive bike ($13.5K in '04 vs $12K in '12)

Still doesn't explain the handling - maybe the magnesium marchesini wheels are lighter and contribute to a lower unsprung weight and lower turning forces ?  Or the shorter wheelbase on the S4R is making the difference ?

Looking at the above, I could mod the evo to add the termi's, get the logomania kit to turn it blue and white, powder coat the wheels white, put the 14T gear on it, take it through the break in period and I'd have a bike that would be performing similar to how the S4R is now.

I guess I really fell in love, huh ?

The difference in purchase price more than covers a new seat and the extra service costs...

[stopintime]

...........
 I felt 'at home' on it within the first 100 yards.
.................

I guess I really fell in love, huh ?
.............

I rest my case 


Strange thing about the handling experience. The 696, 796 and 1100 are not normally conceived as hard to turn. Maybe the evo ergos makes you sit/think/act in a counterproductive way - if so, we're back at the statements I quoted you on.

Dealer warranty for a few months would be nice - against surprises with seals, gaskets, rubber hoses ...

[Raux]

 Have the dealer ride the evo then let him fix the thing.  something isnt set up right