Help Diagnose Starting issue Please.

[Howie]

If you have fuel, spark and compression and all are happening at the correct time the bike should start.  From one of your posts you say you have weak compression in one cylinder.  It should probably still start.  Something is being overlooked. 

Maybe a compression or cylinder leakage test is in order.  Your finger over the hole is not an accurate piece of test equipment.  Unless you have a reasonably powerful compressor a cylinder leakage test is out.  A compression test is done by installing a compression gauge and cranking the engine four revolutions with the throttle open.  Pull the fuel injection relay.  Readings will be low since the engine is cold, but the cylinders should be fairly equal.  Put a squirt of oil in the low cylinder and retest.  If the low cylinder is due to rings the reading will be notably higher.  Otherwise it is most likely a valve.

I don't understand your last post about clicking.  Does the bike no longer want to crank?  If so, this issue must be fixed first.

The throttle bodies are the carb like items under the air cleaner with the plates that open when you twist the throttle.  Where are you been putting the gas and starter fluid?

Careful with the starter fluid.  It has an unbelievably low octane rating and engine damage can occur.

Oh, check valve timing too.

You might also consider getting the bike over to a pro.  Sometimes it is easier and cheaper in the long run.

[Traeden]

it clicks instead of turn over if I hook up my car battery (car off) with jumper cables to my bike. when im using the motorcycle battery it turns over.

I was putting the starter fluid aerosol spray on air filter and inside where spark plugs are at as per advice of someone else. I'll hold off on the compression test since you said it should still start. I'll try the throttle bodies as suggested.

I know I am far from a pro mechanic but I enjoy the learning experience. If it was something like an engine rebuild or maybe even replacing the piston rings i'd probably take it in but so far ive had some rich experiences working on my bike and I don't want to trade those in for expensive fix lacking in personal knowledge increase so someday I can be a less knowledgable version of a howie =D

[Howie]

it clicks instead of turn over if I hook up my car battery (car off) with jumper cables to my bike. when im using the motorcycle battery it turns over.

I was putting the starter fluid aerosol spray on air filter and inside where spark plugs are at as per advice of someone else. I'll hold off on the compression test since you said it should still start. I'll try the throttle bodies as suggested.

I know I am far from a pro mechanic but I enjoy the learning experience. If it was something like an engine rebuild or maybe even replacing the piston rings i'd probably take it in but so far ive had some rich experiences working on my bike and I don't want to trade those in for expensive fix lacking in personal knowledge increase so someday I can be a less knowledgable version of a howie =D

The only thing I can think of with your bike not cranking when boosted with your car battery is loose terminals, remove, clean, reinstall.  Disconnect negative first connect negative last for safety.

Do the compression test.  Poor wording on my part.  The bike can start on one cylinder if all else is fine, not necessarily will.  If the engine needs major work it is pointless to get it running.

Believe it or not, it takes less knowledge to rebuild an engine than to diagnose.  Oh,with training and experience you can become a you can be a much more and better version of Howie. 

[Traeden]

Okay, to get to the throttle bodies its kind of a pain on my bike, i have to remove the battery disconnect a ton of stuff and finally i can take out the air filter housing. I will try putting the starter fluid down the bodies as suggested. before I do this though I just wanted to put some pictures of them to show condition.
closed throttle body 1

open throttle 1

open throttle 2

they both were closed and open at the same rate and appear to function fine.

I just wanted to ask real quick since I already have all this off, Is it a possibility that the fuel injectors are gummed up from ethanol or bad gas during its storage and should I take them off and clean them since I'm already here?

injector 1

injector 2

I did an ohms measure across both terminals and the readings were the same so there shouldnt be any issue with the electrical side of them functioning properly

[Traeden]

sorry forgot to mention I tried hooking up to  car again (not running) with jumpers and this time it didn't do the clicking it turned over the exact same way it does with the motorcycle battery.

[Traeden]

I had a fun experience learning how to remove the air filter housing inorder to expose the throttle bodies and found out how to access a lot of other things on my motorcycle. unfortunately spraying starter fluid down the throttle bodies didn't get me any closer to starting the motorcycle. The spark plugs were moist after trying to start it multiple times. Does this mean that the spark plugs even though I made sure to ground them and watch them spark outside the engine perhaps aren't sparking enough to ignite the fuel or is there a timing issue? Do motorcycles have timing belts? I know it was mentioned that the compression issue in the horizontal cylinder shouldn't keep the bike from starting but if the air mixture with fuel wasn't right wouldn't that be reason for the spark and fuel to not combust and start the bike?

I don't have a pressure gauge so I'll have to go buy one inorder to determine as mentioned by howie whether the pressure issue is valve or ring related. in the meantime any other suggestions?

[Howie]

I had a fun experience learning how to remove the air filter housing inorder to expose the throttle bodies and found out how to access a lot of other things on my motorcycle. unfortunately spraying starter fluid down the throttle bodies didn't get me any closer to starting the motorcycle. The spark plugs were moist after trying to start it multiple times. Does this mean that the spark plugs even though I made sure to ground them and watch them spark outside the engine perhaps aren't sparking enough to ignite the fuel or is there a timing issue? Do motorcycles have timing belts? I know it was mentioned that the compression issue in the horizontal cylinder shouldn't keep the bike from starting but if the air mixture with fuel wasn't right wouldn't that be reason for the spark and fuel to not combust and start the bike?

I don't have a pressure gauge so I'll have to go buy one inorder to determine as mentioned by howie whether the pressure issue is valve or ring related. in the meantime any other suggestions?

All you had to do to get to the throttle bodies is open the airbox lid and remove the filter element.  Most bikes don't have timing belts, but your bike has two, one for each cylinder.  Get yourself a repair manual.

[Traeden]

I have a haynes manual that covers my monster model. Perhaps it was a user error but I didn't see a way to specifically get to throttle bodies and I didn't know if it was kosher to try and take off the plastic parts of the housing. I did however read that I could access them by removing the housing so that's what I did. Sorry if my posts are incessant and bothersome... just a 25 year old who's having an adventure with his first ducati. I also ask questions here that I research on the forums and online at the same time so that I can confirm what I find elsewhere.

[Traeden]

I have done some research and feel a little stupid cause I shouldve realized that my bike does have the two timing belts and I already know exactly how to get to both of them (it's funny when you don't know the names of things). I was reading through some forums and one person described the sound of a ducati with a broken timing belt as "a single struggling to start" which is exactly what I'm experiencing so I'm optimistic that this might be the right fix hopefully. As long as it doesn't snow or rain again I'll be looking into this tomorrow. I saw the cacycle videos posted by chris (thanks chris) and feel like this is doable if its necessary. Any quick pointers on how to tell by looking at the belts if they are in need of replacement or adjusting or a simple test to indicate such?

[Thermite]

If its bad enough to keep it fom starting a belt is either broken or missing teeth.  The front cylinder belt is easy to get at.  Since you said there was little compression on that cylinder that would be the suspect belt.  Pull the cover and if everything is fine put it back on.

[Traeden]

Okay, took off the covers and inspected the timing belts. I saw no badly damaged teeth or obvious(at least to me) signs of damage or rot.
horizontal belt 1

horizontal belt 2

vertical belt 1

vertical belt 2


here is a video of the belts as I try to start the bike you can hear the fuel pump engage
IMG_1318.MOV


I am not sure this is sufficient to show if there is an obvious problem with the tension?
 IMG_1319.MOV

[Dellikose]

Those belts look really loose.

The spec recommended by DesmoTimes is that you can fit a 5mm Allen under the fixed roller (not tensioner), but not a 6mm.

Here's a good explaination:

http://www.ducatisuite.com/belttension.html

[Traeden]

bah was raining today. I checked out the instructions on the ducati suite website and will adjust tension on belts when skies clear up since it needs doing anyway but that wouldn't cause a starting issue would it?

[Traeden]

this is what my air filter looks like. How bad is this on a scale of 1-10?

[Dellikose]

I'm not sure if it will not let it start, though they definately need to be within spec. How old are they? It might be better to just replace them for peace of mind.

Also, none of your pictures are showing up for me. You might want to check your hosting.