my brand new '04 S4R

[dark_duc]

Wow!  Amazing bike, enjoy!   

[Curmudgeon]

We'll continue to disagree on this.

Possibly. 

In the manual for my T-100, 87 (M+R/2) is recommended. The bike gets better mileage on 87 than it does on 93. I mix 87/93 50/50 to get the additive package in the premium (fact, not theory). The advance curve in the ECM is calibrated for 87. The bike has a steel tank and I run local E-10 which varies in the amount of corn in it, at least by nose.

Not disputing your personal findings. I'm no chemist and I have no idea what the blends are like in VT. There are 150+ blends in this country, all localized.

My 796 is fed 93 pure gas because that's the only branded pure gas available to me. Some places have unbranded 87 for the farmers around here but that's "risky business" IMO. The major brands guarantee their fuels and are insured for damage including water contamination. How do I know? We've pumped a lot of tanks and sent fuel samples to labs with prompt results.

ALL the premium European brands I sold recommended a minimum of 91 or 93, and ALL got better mileage on 93, so 87 was a seriously false economy because saving $0.30 resulted in 12 - 13 MPG vs 16 - 17. No risk of pinging though because they all had knock sensors by 1996. The EFi ECU just retarded the ignition accordingly and with a proportional loss of power.

More's the pity, Ducatis don't have knock sensors. If they did, and if I could find branded 87 pure gas, we could just do a mileage comparison and we'd have "an" answer although maybe not still "the" answer.

While relating your personal experience, you have still not explained Ducati's recommendation of "at least" 95 RON for the S4R and 98 minimum for my 796. I presume Ducati doesn't own an oil company and has no axe to grind, right? I figure the ECU in my bike is calibrated with an advance curve for a minimum of 95 RON. Is there some other liability reason you can imagine for Ducati's octane recommendations? To me, 11:1+ seems a good enough reason in theory.

What you call pinging, I call "death rattle". Most pinging can't be easily heard, especially on the bikes with slip-ons ridden by many here  , but is just as damaging over time, . The knock sensors in lots of cars can detect a ping and react in < 1/500th second while you would have trouble hearing those knocks with a stethoscope. No kidding.

As for the carbon issue you raise, is this an E-10 issue mainly? Never had the problem with any of my L-Twins but only my 851 was forced to run on the junk unless I only wanted to fill up across the river in PA. No idea what Larry Ferracci cooked in the chips in that ECU, but it ran well. 

If the tank in my 796 ever gets sick, I'll pick up a PEX tank from Germany but in no hurry to spend ~ $1,000 for that quite yet!

Since Donnie Unger has rebuilt a countless L-Twins, I'll ask him about the carbon build-up you've experienced when I next speak with him and report back with his observations. Could be interesting...

[Howie]

Bruce Meyers has seen 4 valve Ducs lose power on the dyno with premium.  Compression ratio is only one factor in octane requirement.  Volumetric efficiency, camshafts and timing, combustion chamber shape and intake charge temperature are only some of the other variables.  Math is not a good conversion method to find an AKI equivalent.  As you already know, AKI is Research Octane Number + Motor Octane Number/2.  This is the problem MON is done at a higher RPM, hotter intake charge and variable ignition advance than RON so math is not a good indicator. 

[Buckethead]

Awesome bike, Duchess. I think you're probably going to discover some serious parallels between your C4 and your S$R. And yeah, the Gods of Internal Combustion must be pacified by semi-regular sacrifices. I call the local duc dealership "The Hundred Dollar Store" for a reason. That said, it's totally worth it. 

My suggested mods:

- Hot pink rim stripes. HERE.
- Different seat. The ONE THING I've found in the Ducati Performance catalog that gave better bang for the buck than aftermarket was the Monster "comfort saddle." It's got a sort of suede finish and gel pads tucked under the foam. The ONLY down side I found was that the gel tended to get hot if you left the bike parked in the sun. I used to keep a bandana in the pocket of my jacket specifically to leave on my seat if I wasn't parked in the shade. If you can't find one to try out, then I'm sure a local auto/marine upholstery shop would be able to custom shape whatever your heart could desire on top of your stock seat pan for a reasonable price.
- Heated grips. It'll make those 50^o days a lot more pleasant. There are several different types available. I recommend either the bar-insert kind or the flexible under-grip style. Either of those will allow you to use whatever kind of grip is most comfortable for you AND keep your digits toasty.

My only other suggestion is to ride the snot out of it. Which I'm pretty sure you plan on doing anyway. 

I presume Ducati doesn't own an oil company and has no axe to grind, right?

Which is why my Sport 1000 came with a sticker saying to only use Shell Advance Ultra 4, an oil not available on this continent (last time I checked). 

[Curmudgeon]

Howie,

All true. I'm aware. Back in the 70's I had a client who was chief engineer at the old Linden Labs. He invited me to visit him on my day off which I did. Saw their octane engine in operation. They did then and I presume refineries still do test each batch of base stock. This was before and after blending. Makes your head spin! Anyway, various brands differ widely in the way they blend for that pump octane number. Some use a lot higher percentage of the "good stuff" than others. So, besides the localized blends the Feds stick us with these days, the brand formulaions add one more level of variability.

Not familiar with Bruce Meyers. Did know Ferracci when he was running the factory SBK effort. His bikes ran VP AMA-legal or FIM-legal race gas. I'd guess that was 104 - 106 RON. The heads and valve gear on those bikes looked like Tiffany & Co. to me but not in MY budget! 

[Curmudgeon]

Which is why my Sport 1000 came with a sticker saying to only use Shell Advance Ultra 4, an oil not available on this continent (last time I checked). 

Her C4 probably came with one of those too. Ferraris do. For oil though, on a later C4 there's probably a Mobil 1 sticker on the airbox. They are serious too as it's the only oil which meets MB 229.5 spec. otherwise known as Euro formula 0W40 or 5W40 in bulk.

[Duchess]

And yeah, the Gods of Internal Combustion must be pacified by semi-regular sacrifices. I call the local duc dealership "The Hundred Dollar Store" for a reason. That said, it's totally worth it. 

I used to own a motor yacht and it was a truism that BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand ... Ducati's are cheap compared to a Carver ...

- Hot pink rim stripes.

You had me at "hot pink" - seen it liked it ordered already !

- Different seat. The ONE THING I've found in the Ducati Performance catalog that gave better bang for the buck than aftermarket was the Monster "comfort saddle." It's got a sort of suede finish and gel pads tucked under the foam.

OK, so now I have recco's for DP Comfort, Sargent, Spencer and Custom .... is there an aftermarket seat thread somewhere ?

- Heated grips. It'll make those 50^o days a lot more pleasant. There are several different types available. I recommend either the bar-insert kind or the flexible under-grip style. Either of those will allow you to use whatever kind of grip is most comfortable for you AND keep your digits toasty.

Could have done with that today. I ordered the Grip Puppy foam sleeves, and they say they can slip on over grip warming tape - again - is there a link to that anywhere ?  How hard an install is it - I can do curling iron and flat iron but not soldering iron ...

My only other suggestion is to ride the snot out of it. Which I'm pretty sure you plan on doing anyway.

Yes Sir !

Which is why my Sport 1000 came with a sticker saying to only use Shell Advance Ultra 4, an oil not available on this continent (last time I checked). 

My S$R comes with 13 stickers (OK, 12 as two of them are duplicate) AND a page in the handbook that shows me where they all are !  Helpful !  My favorite is "do not attempt to look through this fairing" ....

The fluids sticker only says "unleaded gasoline" and SAE 20W50 oil" but the fluids page in the manual does say
 - unleaded, 95 octane (at least)
 - SHELL Advance Ultra 4 lube
 - SHELL Advance Brake DOT 4 for clutch and brake fluids
 - SHELL Advance contact cleaner for electrics
 - SHELL Advance Fork oil for front fork
 - SHELL Advance Antifreeze for radiator

Guess I'm just glad they don't force me to stop at a Shell Gas station to fill up the tank ....  and meanwhile you guys have thoroughly confused this old girl on regular vs premium   

Interestingly the manual (SAE 10W-40) disagrees with the body sticker (SAE20W-50) .... I guess the body sticker assumes I won't be using it as a snow mobile, but the manual hasn't got to know me that well ...

Duchess

[Buckethead]

I used to own a motor yacht and it was a truism that BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand ... Ducati's are cheap compared to a Carver ...

Oh! So you used to own a hole in the water for throwing money into! 

A Duc isn't NEARLY that bad (once you have it "sorted").

Could have done with that today. I ordered the Grip Puppy foam sleeves, and they say they can slip on over grip warming tape - again - is there a link to that anywhere ?  How hard an install is it - I can do curling iron and flat iron but not soldering iron ...

GRIPS! HERE. The wiring is pretty simple and doesn't require a soldering iron. Heat-shrink tubing, an inline fuse, and a 12v relay, yes, but it can be all wired up with crimp connectors. I can walk you through it if you like, or I'm sure a local ATV/snowmobile shop would be willing to do it for 1-2 hours labor charge.

OK, so now I have recco's for DP Comfort, Sargent, Spencer and Custom .... is there an aftermarket seat thread somewhere ?

Rundown as I understand it:

DP: Relatively inexpensive (~$200 from the dealer). Gel padded and covered in suede. Kinda grippy, so not great if you're doing trackdays and want to slide around. If you're doing long days in the saddle, it's relatively comfy. I had one on my 620. My biggest gripe was the gel material getting hot, as mentioned. That said, I'm kinda tall, so hip/knee/leg angles weren't so much of an issues.

Sargent: Spendy, firmer than the original piece, and a little taller in the butt (thanks to extra cushion) but no wider than stock. I know several people who have them on other bikes and say that they're firmer than the stock bits, but that the firmness contributes to them being comfortable for longer. A stiff but supportive recliner as opposed to one you sink into and rest on the frame.

Custom: PM JBub in the PNW board. She's itty bitty, but she had the seat on her S2R 800 carved down for her and she's totally comfy on her bike. Also, please don't tell her I said she's "itty bitty."

[ducpainter]

Howie,

All true. I'm aware. Back in the 70's I had a client who was chief engineer at the old Linden Labs. He invited me to visit him on my day off which I did. Saw their octane engine in operation. They did then and I presume refineries still do test each batch of base stock. This was before and after blending. Makes your head spin! Anyway, various brands differ widely in the way they blend for that pump octane number. Some use a lot higher percentage of the "good stuff" than others. So, besides the localized blends the Feds stick us with these days, the brand formulaions add one more level of variability.

Not familiar with Bruce Meyers. Did know Ferracci when he was running the factory SBK effort. His bikes ran VP AMA-legal or FIM-legal race gas. I'd guess that was 104 - 106 RON. The heads and valve gear on those bikes looked like Tiffany & Co. to me but not in MY budget! 

Bruce Meyers is the guy standing next to Eraldo in the DNA hall of fame award pics.

I follow his advice.

[Duchess]

OK Bucket head - thanks for the Symtec link but
a) that is one ugly a$$ switch
b) the caption says "not for use with twist throttle"

what am I missing ?

I guess this is a prettier switch
http://www.amazon.com/Symtec-300005-Replacement-Hi-Low-Snowmobile/dp/B003AU5KPW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1335230728&sr=8-2

But still doesn't address the "not for twist throttle" issue

[Buckethead]

Sorry about that.

Here's a better link. Same thing but it's their "motorcycle" version and designed for use under a twist-grip:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AWRCJO/ref=s9_simh_gw_p263_d0_g263_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0F3K23ZK4DKY6AHCV1RC&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

While the picture shows the giant chrome switch, the description is for a round rocker switch like the one you linked to. Just an old product image (it's the same kit I have on my bike). You leave a little bit of slack in the wires for the throttle side so it's got room to twist. If you do it right, it's tucked away underneath and invisible unless you go looking for it.

The only other thing I can think of that you'd want is a piece of heat shrink tubing to put on the clutch side of the handlebar before you put the heating element on. It acts as an insulator, keeping the bar from soaking up all the heat from that side. You don't need to do that on the throttle side as it's got the plastic throttle tube. Should be available at any AutoZone or the like. If you can't find any, let me know. Pretty sure I've got some left over from when I did mine.

[Duchess]

Thanks Bucket Head - I was poking around on Amazon and was beginning to cotton on that the "RR" designation meant the "pretty switch" even though the picture still showed the toggle.

Then I came across the Heat Demons ....

http://www.heatdemon.com/Metric-Grip-Warmers_c_26.html

These look amazing !  About 3x the $$ of course, but still, the install looks very clean, with the controller mounted to the bars and everything else tucked away

Anyone seen these up close and personal ?