Road Death. Cause and effect? (Or how we learned to blame the victim).

[ManaloEA]

Someone needs to take that video, swap the car and bike and see what the reaction is when a bike pulls out in front of a speeding car around a blind corner. Would the emphasis be on the car slowing down? Or would it be that the bike did not properly inspect the situation before entering the intersection?

[Raux]

to me this is where in the U.S. anyway, the AMA needs to get out and advertise. Put out all those situations where drivers are injuring and killing riders. And ALWAYS have the rider going the speed limit and always have the rider paying attention and always have the rider doing the right thing. Because for some reason, this is ALWAYS the opposite of how they depict car vs riders, the cars are always doing the right thing.

[Curmudgeon]

When I retired to Virginia three years ago, I noted every spring that VDOT did TV advertising for motorcycle awareness. Couldn't locate the current ads but did find this old one from New York DMV.

[DucNaked]

My original intent for this post was to link to some of the Look Twice ads. However after a quick YouTube search I found a huge motorcycle problem I had previously been unaware of.

CHiPs - Ponch's Motorcycle Safety PSA (2008)

Thread jack over... Sorry Ung  

[ungeheuer]

Clearly the commercial had an agenda and unfortunately it did paint a poor light on riders. Does anyone know how to edit video and dub audio? I think we could have fun creating hypothetical situations with that video  

This one's pretty dry... but it makes the point nonetheless

[krolik]

Good one. 

[Howie]

That one works

[ManaloEA]

This one's pretty dry... but it makes the point nonetheless

Much better!

[polivo]

I tell you right now.. Im usually very quiet, but I couldnt feel any stronger about this topic.. and any more contrary to most of the views here.

1. Rider was speeding.
2. As a rider, YOUR LIFE is in YOUR HANDS!  Right of way wont mean SHIT when your in a make the beast with two backsING BOX.
3. MAKE decisions based on your DESIRE to stay on this PLANET or ELSE. NO ONE ELSE gives a SHIT ABOUT you on the ROAD, dont assume ANYTHING.
4. I make the beast with two backsING LOVE THIS COMERCIAL. I DISAGREE about the POLITICAL ANGLE, I dont BUY it.  THIS commercial in my humble opinion is like the horrifically graphic CIGARETTE ADDS. Showing people with tracheotomies (spelling).  Its meant  to burn an IMAGE into your mind you can close your eyes too.. and remind you.. "your choice, your death"


Im done.. flame away.

[thought]

I tell you right now.. Im usually very quiet, but I couldnt feel any stronger about this topic.. and any more contrary to most of the views here.

1. Rider was speeding.
2. As a rider, YOUR LIFE is in YOUR HANDS!  Right of way wont mean SHIT when your in a make the beast with two backsING BOX.
3. MAKE decisions based on your DESIRE to stay on this PLANET or ELSE. NO ONE ELSE gives a SHIT ABOUT you on the ROAD, dont assume ANYTHING.
4. I make the beast with two backsING LOVE THIS COMERCIAL. I DISAGREE about the POLITICAL ANGLE, I dont BUY it.  THIS commercial in my humble opinion is like the horrifically graphic CIGARETTE ADDS. Showing people with tracheotomies (spelling).  Its meant  to burn an IMAGE into your mind you can close your eyes too.. and remind you.. "your choice, your death"


Im done.. flame away.

1.  I'm not sure if I can really consider going 5 mph over the speed limit in a 35 mph zone really speeding...  if he was going 60 in a 35, yes, then he's will def be at fault... but 5 mph?  You can easily pick up 5 mph by coming down a hill unless you ride your brakes to maintain the exact speed limit.  In fact, I would say most judges would toss a 5 mph speeding ticket out as a waste of their time.

2.  Yup, which just goes to show that the car was still in the wrong for not yielding to right of way.  So the fault was still for the majority with the car even if you still say 5 mph over the limit is too much.

3.  I would say that wearing a full 2 piece suit zipped together, race boots/gloves, and helmet along with going only 5 mph over the speed limit is pretty much already doing everything you can to assume something will hit you.

4.  If you view the other commercial that Curmudgeon posted, I think you can see how the fault for the accident was placed differently for almost the same incident with the message that not paying attention on the road might have you kill someone.  And if you want graphic, look at this TSA that they did that, when posted on this board, most people agreed with and supported... because the incident that occurs is the fault of the rider and warns riders to do more to protect themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRpNirJfuzs&feature=relmfu

Basically, the main issue here seems to be that when the story is told from the perspective given in the original video, it paints the the victim of the accident as the person in the wrong.  Which then goes on to basically tell all car drivers that, even if they were the ones that caused the accident, it was probably the rider's fault anyway.  It as ludicrous as them doing the same commercial with a car driving 5 mph over the speed limit, having someone pulling out in front of them, and then dying to the accident... to then say that the 5 mph over killed them, not the car pulling out.

[polivo]

sorry.. Ive buried alot of friends. Whenever this topic comes up, im pretty passionate about it. So ill try to explain my view another way.

1.   I dont think  those ADDs change anything. People will continue being assholes in cars and motorcycles.
2.  Unfortunately, in every case that Im familiar with the rider was speeding. We ALL KNOW someone who has riden in excess of 100 miles per hour on the higway a few times. 
3.  Since MY life means alot to ME, im not going to quibble about "right of way".  Its not even a consideration in my mind when i cross an intersection.  I KNOW That is the MOST common multi-vehicle accident for motorcyclists.
4. I treat every intersection as a DO or DIE scenario! Where are the cars? Am i going across alone?  can I use another car as a physical barrier?  Can I use another car who is crossing in the same direction for added VISUAL PRESENCE?

In the end. The rider who is in a BOX, doesnt have a chance to debate the law, riding technique and/or ethical behaviour. Hes simply dead. 

Its your life.. protect it. Slow down, give yourself options, scan ahead. Physics supercedes the law, good luck out there.

[Betty]

I DISAGREE about the POLITICAL ANGLE, I dont BUY it.

All I would say is that you haven't had to live it then.

THIS commercial in my humble opinion is like the horrifically graphic CIGARETTE ADDS. Showing people with tracheotomies (spelling).  Its meant  to burn an IMAGE into your mind you can close your eyes too.. and remind you.. "your choice, your death"

I will throw this back another way ... I HATE those ads. As someone who has never smoked a cigarrette - it serves no purpose other than to make me feel ill increase my anger level towards smokers ... because it is their fault I am subjected to the bloody ads all the time.

Same could apply here from the driver's point of view for this ad. They may feel they are being subjected to overly graphic details of a bike rider doing the wrong thing ... and has been mentioned many times it not only gives them the moral high ground it removes all resposibility from the truly guilty party.

[Betty]

sorry.. Ive buried alot of friends. Whenever this topic comes up, im pretty passionate about it. So ill try to explain my view another way.

1.   I dont think  those ADDs change anything. People will continue being assholes in cars and motorcycles.
2.  Unfortunately, in every case that Im familiar with the rider was speeding. We ALL KNOW someone who has riden in excess of 100 miles per hour on the higway a few times.  3.  Since MY life means alot to ME, im not going to quibble about "right of way".  Its not even a consideration in my mind when i cross an intersection.  I KNOW That is the MOST common multi-vehicle accident for motorcyclists.
4. I treat every intersection as a DO or DIE scenario! Where are the cars? Am i going across alone?  can I use another car as a physical barrier?  Can I use another car who is crossing in the same direction for added VISUAL PRESENCE?

In the end. The rider who is in a BOX, doesnt have a chance to debate the law, riding technique and/or ethical behaviour. Hes simply dead. 

Its your life.. protect it. Slow down, give yourself options, scan ahead. Physics supercedes the law, good luck out there.

I don't think people are disputing this point of view ... in fact the agreement is probably unanimous. But the story telling in the ad doesn't present that picture either.

I crossed out part of your point two becasue if I do know people that travel as you suggested they are not 'bragging' to me about it.

[ducpainter]

sorry.. Ive buried alot of friends. Whenever this topic comes up, im pretty passionate about it. So ill try to explain my view another way.

1.   I dont think  those ADDs change anything. People will continue being assholes in cars and motorcycles.
2.  Unfortunately, in every case that Im familiar with the rider was speeding. We ALL KNOW someone who has riden in excess of 100 miles per hour on the higway a few times. 
3.  Since MY life means alot to ME, im not going to quibble about "right of way".  Its not even a consideration in my mind when i cross an intersection.  I KNOW That is the MOST common multi-vehicle accident for motorcyclists.
4. I treat every intersection as a DO or DIE scenario! Where are the cars? Am i going across alone?  can I use another car as a physical barrier?  Can I use another car who is crossing in the same direction for added VISUAL PRESENCE?

In the end. The rider who is in a BOX, doesnt have a chance to debate the law, riding technique and/or ethical behaviour. Hes simply dead. 

Its your life.. protect it. Slow down, give yourself options, scan ahead. Physics supercedes the law, good luck out there.

A car will kill you regardless of speed...

yours or it's...

if they abuse your rights on the road.

That is the point here.

You can't go slow enough to prevent that.

Just sayin'.

[Ducatamount]

IMHO, Polvio is right on one hand and wrong on the other.