If there an SS market for Ducati?

[Raux]

I was thinking about this when I saw the SS SL on another thread.

Bruce Meyers put together an aircooled deepsump SBK framed 2V for a demo purpose.
I think it could be a prototype for reentry into the SS market since the SBKs are moving to the Superquadro with frameless.

It's more of the soul of Ducati.

[sofadriver]

Good point.
You may have noticed I just bought a '96 900 SS/SP. 80hp can get the job done just fine. Who can use all that uber-horsepower and Star Wars crap on the street? That's why you see so many for sale. Sure Ducati needs a flagship but an SBK for normal human beings would be nice. But would it be considered a Duc for wussies? A "baby" Duc? An 1198 is considered way more badass than an 848 even though there's only a handfull of riders in the world that can get the extra out of the 1198. And only on a track.
Everybody wants the biggest and most badass.
Common sense says there should be a 2 valver. Even a 796 powered SBK would be more than most riders are really capable of handling on the street.
But, would it sell?

[Curmudgeon]

All true, but look at it from a marketing perspective. What has and has not sold over the last 20 years? Logic has little to do with it. Meanwhile the Monster has "kept the lights on" because it's a canvas to make your own idea of a Ducati.

I'd love to have a small, LIGHTWEIGHT, comfortable Monster-based 796 ST, but that ain't happening. The overall European market has been heading toward multis and roadsters for volume sales for quite some time. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[sofadriver]

^
word!

[1KDS]

You got a link to Bruce's build Raux?

[Raux]

"Bottom line: an 1176cc torque-monster (about 90 ft.-lbs. at 3800 rpm, on the Dynojet dyno at WyoTech, DNA’s training partner), asked to produce a mere 115 horses at moderate revs (9000), managed by a catalog Ducati Performance ECU. Since the entire machine weighs just 300 pounds, more powerful bikes will sweat to keep up during track days and club racing, particularly in the vital 0-120-mph speed bracket. As LaForte puts it, grinning ear to ear, “a truly sick bike.”"

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/05/re-made-in-the-usa-dnas-hotrod-frankenbike/

[Curmudgeon]

Quite an exercise (and expensive), but what's it good for? Useless as a "road weapon". If I still folded up that way, I'd take a TT2 any day. THAT is the epitome of Ducati soul. http://www.ducati.com/history/80s/tt2_/index.do

[SDRider]

Good point.
You may have noticed I just bought a '96 900 SS/SP. 80hp can get the job done just fine. Who can use all that uber-horsepower and Star Wars crap on the street? That's why you see so many for sale. Sure Ducati needs a flagship but an SBK for normal human beings would be nice. But would it be considered a Duc for wussies? A "baby" Duc? An 1198 is considered way more badass than an 848 even though there's only a handfull of riders in the world that can get the extra out of the 1198. And only on a track.
Everybody wants the biggest and most badass.
Common sense says there should be a 2 valver. Even a 796 powered SBK would be more than most riders are really capable of handling on the street.
But, would it sell?

Would people buy it though?  That is the question.

[Duck-Stew]

Interesting question.

There are (roughly) the same amount of tubes to weld together to make a trellis frame, all 2V motors have the same number of moving parts (ST2 excluded), and all the machining to put an SBK chassis together are already purchased..  It wouldn't be hard to make a case that it shouldn't cost more than an M1100 does currently.

An 1100evo motor in the 1198 chassis as a standard catalog offering from Ducati factory?!?

I, for one, would seriously consider that hardware!!!

[ducatiz]

The issue is also regulatory.  Air-cooled bikes are going to go eventually, at least big bore ones (over 4-500cc) due to noise and emissions rules.  It's getting very hard to control those in light of tightening regs.

Water cooled bikes eliminate most of the motor noise and emissions are much easier to modulate.

No reason they can't make a water run SS bike.  ST2 engine was nice imho. 

[Triple J]

I'll start off by saying I'd love to see a new SS bike. 

However, I don't think they'd sell very well because in order for it to be competitive with any of the superbikes (which it would need to be) it would have to weigh a maximum of 325lbs (in road trim - no fuel). It would also have to have good components.

In order to be competitive on the race track it would need to be 300 lbs ready to ride.

I don't think they can make it that light at a price point that mere mortals can afford. That's the problem as I see it.

Get an NCR Milona or a Pierobon F042 if you really want a new Ducati SS. They aren't cheap though, especially the NCR. I'd love to have a Pierobon as a race bike...but I'm too cheap, knowing that eventually I'll throw it down the track.

[duccarlos]

The ST has been fully replaced by the Multi's and GS of the world. You just need to look at Triumph's sales of the Tiger vs ST. The SS would only be feasible with the numbers Triple J describes and a considerably cheaper price tag comparaed to the 848. That's the problem. You would need to find room between the Monsters and the 848. How do you bridge that gap?

[ducatiz]

The ST has been fully replaced by the Multi's and GS of the world. You just need to look at Triumph's sales of the Tiger vs ST. The SS would only be feasible with the numbers Triple J describes and a considerably cheaper price tag comparaed to the 848. That's the problem. You would need to find room between the Monsters and the 848. How do you bridge that gap?

Make a different bike altogether.

Not sure how to differentiate that though..

I think the 848 could be the modern SS.  There is nothing that says an SS has to be bevel, or carbed, or efi or air cooled.

[duccarlos]

Make a different bike altogether.

Not sure how to differentiate that though..

I think the 848 could be the modern SS.  There is nothing that says an SS has to be bevel, or carbed, or efi or air cooled.

Well, if things go as in the past, they should be replacing the 848 with a 1199 based bike. Take the 848 motor and put it on an SS along with the SF? I think that would definitely mark the eventual death of the air cooled bikes.

[ducatiz]

Well, if things go as in the past, they should be replacing the 848 with a 1199 based bike. Take the 848 motor and put it on an SS along with the SF? I think that would definitely mark the eventual death of the air cooled bikes.

I don't think it would mean the death of them -- I thought that was the split ,that the monster and hyper would remain air cooled and the SBKs and other bikes watercooled.

I just don't think there is enough interest in what an air/oil cooled bike offers for them to sell enough SS bikes now.

Definitely do a sportclassic version.