Betty & Jukie's Italian Pilgrimmage - Take 2 (Potentially NSFW Now)

[Betty]

Planning something Rob?

I'll get back to you ... have to see what I can dig up (just a bit busy at the moment).

[Betty]

What about the cost

*Car lease /hire

$1939 which included credit card charges and $320 for delivery and return from France - lease period was 32 days ... so about $60/day.

As I mentioned you could hire for less but we wanted a bit more certainty and flexibility and also didn't want to go too small being mindful of the distances we would travel and the luggage we would carry.

It was organised through Global Cars in Crows Nest (recommended by one of Jukie's workmates) and it was pretty seamless - very simple actually.

[Betty]

What about the cost

*Fuel prices

Around 1.80 euro a litre (a little less sometimes). So about $100 or so for say 47 litres.

That was petrol ... but I can't recall which type as we always had 'driveway service' (you may be old enough to remember that Rob) - sometimes we even had the windscreen cleaned for us.

[Betty]

What about the cost

*What you would expect to pay for accommodation.

Really depends on what you are looking for, what you are expecting (from a facility point of view), which city/town and its relative proximity to 'stuff'. Because I am the way I am, I had a budget which was based on our previous experience over there and we used this to help find something 'appropriate'.

Typically we stayed under $200 per night (cheaper than Turismo!) for the two of us. Cheapest was in Bologna @ around $125/night and that was not their cheapest room. Misano was just over $200/night ... but it was coming on to the full holiday season there and it is where the Italians holiday (oh and it was during WDW). Our last night we splashed out and spent almost $230/night for the suite in the castle.

All the places we stayed were hotels and included buffet breakfasts. Some of the smaller places were a little limited in their offerings (breakfast for most Italians is a coffee and a biscuit), but it is all relative - the bigger places were generally better for breakfast. We generally stuffed ourselves to the extent of only needing a gelato for lunch ... but I like breakfast, your mileage may vary.

Parking was extra in a handful of places (between 10 and 20 euro per night I think) ... say $12.50 to $25.

Most of the big cities (but not all) also had a 'city charge' that you pay when checking out ... basically a bed tax to help the economy I think. It was between 2 and 4 euro per person per night. Some of these incidentals can add up but it isn't a huge issue if you know they exist and budget accordingly.

The places we stayed were 'convenient' but not always completely 'central' - cost being one reason and the car another. Until the Boss' feet blew out we didn't mind walking ... and other than when we deliberately stayed out of town we could walk to many of the tourist spots.

If you like, we can talk more about specifics when your plans are more defined

[Betty]

*Any recommended travel web sights or agency.

I'll skip to this one as I will need to do some scratching around for the other ones ... no promises I'm afraid.

As I mentioned above the car was booked through Global Cars and included transfers from the airport (it wasn't too far to the depot).

Flights were booked dierct online with the airline (Emirates in our case), but using Webjet and the like to compare options.

Accommodation was also all done online before we left using Expedia. My head would probably explode if I was not certain we had our accommodation booked before we left. We had used Expedia for a booking previously in Australia and it all went well so used them again - there are several similar online booking sites which appear to have similar offerings and similar pricing. We didn't find any cheaper deals by going direct to the hotel.

All but one of the places we paid when we booked online which was quite simple and apparently secure and the pricing was in Australian dollars. The one exception was Monterosso in Cinque Terre where the booking was confirmed online but we paid (in euro) when we checked out. Cinque Terre as a whole is probably not quite up to speed with this sort of thing.

Using this type of facility gives you the option to take your time researching the hotels (either through the 'portal' or elsewhere) and you can book them individually as you see fit. Using the one 'service' added the benefit of automatically creating an itinerary online with reminder emails sent a couple of days before you were due to arrive (at each place).

Most of these type of services have their own customer reviews and may also link to external review services such as Trip Advisor so there is no shortage of information. But as I mentioned previously sometimes you need a good serving of salt when you read them.

[Betty]

What about the cost

*Most important Booze/alcohol/cigarettes

Can you please quote prices in Aussie Dollars

Can't really provide you with a lot here as I am not one to imbibe and don't do drugs.

Whether or not the Italians have grasped any appreciation of austerity I can't be certain ... but I think it is safe to say that ciggies are more affordable than in Australia by some order of magnitude.

As for the grog ... my delightful travelling partner did, on occasion, sample the local offerings. But this was generally only done by the glass. OK, so sometimes this 'glass' was a whole bottle but the glass size did vary and it was not something we monitored separately.

Beer really only got a start when we were with others ... post-dive drinks and, I think maybe, at WDW. Prices I reckon would have been similar to Australian pub prices - seemingly low enough for a tight arse like me to not be concerned about a 'shout'.

Occasionally we received an aperitif (sometimes a digestif as well) this may or may not have been included in an coperto (cover charge), but was not billed separately. Hence there was no reason for me to turn them away and it just added to the frivolity on the other side of the table.

Regardless, the Boss' typical inclination was for the local di vino rosso. These would vary in price depending on whether the 'local' drop was simply an anonymous local wine or a more renowned Chianti Classico, Brunello di Montalcino or Nobile di Montepulciano ... and of course your chosen dining establishment. It also may have determined whether wine was offered by the litre (or part thereof), glass or bottle.

From memory prices ranged from 2.50 euro (say $3-$3.50) to 8 euro (say $10-11) for a glass/quarter litre and from about 8 euro (say $10-11) to 22 euro (around $30) for a bottle. But it is really going to depend on where you choose to dine.

Of course most plonko is readily available at 'supermarkets' which would be cheaper but hotels tend to be more expensive ... in some cases it is cheaper to use the minibar than the hotel bar - but in some cases (like all things) you are paying for the ambience and/or view as well.

'Supermarkets' are quite common (because the population is pretty centralised) but they may not be as 'obvious' to the foreign tourist. In towns, you can't expect the huge Coles/Woolies ... most are smaller and may be carved out within the lower levels of several adjoining buildings. A lack of signage makes them practically anonymous and you have no idea of their size (still relatively small) until you venture inside.

[loony888]

what a write up, thanks so much for the effort, we were last there in '06 but we're chomping at the bit to get back now.......

[Betty]

What about the cost

*Most important Booze/alcohol/cigarettes

Can you please quote prices in Aussie Dollars

I should add in here about 'my' drinks as well, but I will stick to euro costs as the numbers aren't that big ... add approx. 1/4 to 1/3 on to the price depending on what exchange rate you want to get to Aussie dollars.

Soft drinks were probably most expensive in hotel bars ... up to 4 euro, but normally 2 or 3 if you were 'dining' somewhere. Probably similar to Australia I would suggest.

Bottled water is typically a lot cheaper but prices can vary dramatically. It was rare to see 500ml for more than 2 euro but 1 euro seemed to be the norm. Could be as low as 30 euro cents from a vending machine or 39 euro cents for a couple of litres in a supermarket.

Hot chocolates (we tried a couple) which were essentially melted chocolate cost around 2.50 euro.

We don't drink coffee, but I don't think it was expensive. We also managed to stay clear of the bicerin. Again, as always, prices will vary depending on where you are ... not only which city/town, but also whereabouts in town for example the main squares and tourist hotspots will tend to be more expensive.

[Betty]

What about the cost

*Food restaurant prices best places to eat.

Can you please quote prices in Aussie Dollars

Well there are no shortage of places to eat ... but I wouldn't be able to tell you the 'best' places to eat, as we didn't really consider that an option. Firstly I should say that we are not 'foodies'  and rarely 'eat out' when we are at home. Secondly we are not big eaters so you should keep that in mind too.

As I mentioned before we typically had a pretty big breakfast at the hotel but the options did vary. Ordinarily you could get a 'proper' coffee with breakfast if that was your thing. Food normally included bread/toast/rolls, fruit/cereal/yogurt and some sort of tarts/cakes/pastries ... some included hot stuff like bacon, eggs and sausages. All this depends on where you stay and some offer an additional a la carte menu if you are willing to pay.

As someone that is well versed in breakfast before 6am, having a large breaky from say 8am onwards didn't really have me hunting for lunch places until most were closed. So lunch was often a gelato or maybe we would share a panini which you could pick up anywhere for around 5 euro. Pizza slices are also pretty easy to come by, if that is your thing.

On occasion I may have also pocketed a packaged biscuit or nutella (they seem to love the stuff over there) at breakfast which could fill the mid-afternoon gap. Gelato spoons were particularly useful for these little snacks.

Places like Autogrill serve food at all hours ... and may not be a bad option for a quick bite because these type of places don't charge extra for a seat. Sitting down still costs you more in most places but there are a few of the bigger places (like Autogrill) will advertise no charge for sitting down. When you are wondering around in the heat of the day it can be a welcome relief ... also a toilet can be an even greater relief.

A couple of times we ate dinner at the hotel ... this was usually because: we were absolutely knackered and didn't want to walk any more; it was the simplest/easiest option; it offered a nice view; or we were too far out of town to go elsewhere. A couple of times we even opted for room service ... once because we just couldn't be bothered deciding where to eat. It's safe to say this was never the cheapest option.

I'd say the most we paid was probably about 60 euros for the two of us and would have included a drink each, main and dessert. Almost always dinner included bread (maybe complimentary, maybe included in any coperto, maybe a nominal cost) and we usually only opted for dessert if there was something interesting or if we were eating at the hotel as there would be no opportunity go grab a gelato on the way 'home'.

A couple of times we shared an entree (once it was even complimentary) but a lot of walking and the heat had the effect of suppressing the appetite so we really didn't want to eat much. Of course none of this is really helpful for you lot.

Normally I'd say we paid around 30 euros for dinner but as always this will vary depending on the circumstances.

As for recommendations I couldn't really say as we didn't really take note. We were directed to some nice places (read: reasonable food and price) after asking for recommendations at the hotel reception. Alternatively just look for places that seem to be busy and popular with the locals - this will normally get you the most authentic local cuisine and the most reasonable prices. The only issue may be the limited English you may encounter with the waitstaff. This isn't a huge problem in itself but they may also have a huge menu (with many intricate differences) so deciphering all that may take some effort if your Italian is as bad as ours.

A couple of places that I can remember (and not necessarily for the right reasons):

The Ducati Caffe in Rome had pretty ordinary food as far as we were concerned - it seemed as though they were trying to cater for tastes that they didn't really understand ... and as you would expect for a Ducati branded place - it was not cheap. Our initial intention was to try the 'aperitivo' ... as a drink and snacks, but wanted to sit down and enjoy the place (quite sad really) - I think the aperitivo would have been the better option and cost 8 or 10 euro.

An ex-workmate recommended his favourite restaurant in Siena ... so I can forward that recommendation for the Osteria le Logge. It is just of the the Campo (main square) and the food was pretty bloody good and somewhat cheaper than I was expecting (was probably 30-something euro for the two of us). But it did seem quite difficult to get a table ... I think we were lucky in arriving early (by Italian standards) - we found most places don't really open for dinner until around 8pm.

Spacca Napoli Pizzeria in Bologna was recommended to us by one of the girls in the hotel. It was so good we went back. Good, cheap (and bloody huge) pizza and the staff were really patient with us despite their workload. Dinner was between 15 and 20 euros.

In Milan we stuffed up when we really did know better. We were wandering in town, it was drizzling, we were tired and hungry so we succumbed to a footpath spruiker on the main square. They then wanted to up-size our meal which we declined (repeatedly) ... and they still tried to charge us for it - it probably added about 60% to the cost. Eventually I got them to change the bill, but like I said we really did know better - this was the only issue of this type that we encountered.

Kuoki in Turin which combined Italian and Japanese offerings. This was the source of our best ever arancini ... unfortunately they only had one serving left on our return visit. The owner was passionate about Turin and freely provided 'tourist' information. Dinner probably cost 20-odd euro for the two of us.

[Betty]

That was all a bit of a rambling mess ... so I will keep the important part separate.

Gelato was reasonably easy to find in most places. Easy in Rome, fantastically easy in Florence, surprisingly difficult in Bologna and Misano ... some of the smaller towns were great - others not so great. You could get it served in a cone or a cup ... some offered take-home containers for those with storage facilities.

Prices generally varied from 1.40 euro to 2.50 for a small serving and increased according to size. I found, in most cases, it was slightly better value to buy multiple smaller servings rather than go-the-whole-hog ... particularly considering the heat. You could expect to pay up to 6 euro for a 'huge' serving.

Generally speaking the quality was pretty good ... but I am no expert. However I can make a couple of recommendations:

- If the gelato seems to be a side-offering (as in not a core business / specialist gelataria) then it will probably not be the best. However this may be the only option in some places.

- There are few 'chains' so the consistency and quality may vary ... but hey this is part of the experience. Grom stores do appear in most of the main cities and seemed to put out a nice product however.

- The big extravagant displays of piled up gelato are there to draw the tourists in ... typically these are not the best options.

- Price is no indicator of quality ... but, as always, may be a reflection of location.

[Betty]

What about the cost

*Entry fees to Musems/Historical sites.

Can you please quote prices in Aussie Dollars

I am still avoiding currency conversions as the costs are relatively small and will throw up some odd numbers ... so I'll stick to euros generally (unless noted otherwise). Just add a quarter or something if you need to ... just be mindful that there have been massive currency swings over the last three years or so.

The Segway tours were our big expense but we booked and paid for these before we left home ... just under $100 per person in Florence and just over $100 per person in Milan. We did this in Rome three years ago and were willing to pay for the unique experience. It was such a fun thing we wanted to do it again ... so not cheap - but for us it was worth it. Also if you are used to dive holidays it is not bad value for money as an 'experience' type activity.

Obviously not everyone agrees with that way of thinking as each time we have booked onto a group tour and that group has included two people on each of the three occasions ... so we have had a guide to ourselves - very helpful and informative. The tours go for over three hours and you get to chat to a local. Like I said before it is an excellent orientation. This time we were able to sign a waiver to go helmet-less, but the machines were speed limited.

Most (but not all) churches were free to visit, but there may be charges for viewing 'other' areas. Of course you have plenty of opportunity to make 'offerings' on the inside too. Gypsies collecting money at the door are not associated with the church (they are beggars) - if you have to pay to get in, security will let you know.

Those that charge for 'admission' include Santa Croce (but we still haven't managed to get in) and San Lorenzo (the Medici family church) in Florence, the Cathedral in Siena and I also remember places like Saint Mark's in Venice. Generally this can be put down to who is entombed within and/or the significance of the church or the artworks contained within. It is also a very simple method of crowd control.

Saint Peter's is free but the queue to get through security is huge. The rest of the Vatican including the Sistine Chapel will cost you, but we did this last time and it was included in our tour so I don't know about cost. The Duomo in Florence is free but they control the number of people allowed in at any one time, so there is always a huge queue.

You will also find that many places (particularly places of worship) will not allow photos or video but they are always prohibited during mass. It is also worth noting that some have a dress code and may be vigilantly enforced - covered knees and shoulders is generally enough (for both sexes).

Generally we didn't really go to art galleries, museums and the like. I am simply not cultured enough to appreciate that kind of thing. For a common, uncultured bozo like me there is more than enough artwork to be seen in churches (ohh, look at the pretty painting) and in car and bike museums (modern art) ... I don't need to spend hours wandering through halls of paintings making comments like 'oh, is that it?', 'painted by who?', 'yeah its alright i s'pose, just not really my thing' or 'i thought it would be bigger'. You can probably find the cost of most things easily enough online and for some it may be best to pre-book this may save on queuing time (think the Vatican and Uffizi gallery) Some you may not even be able to buy tcikets as a walk-up so if something in particular interests you - do a bit of research first.

The following prices are all in euro per person (epp), audio guides would be extra if you wished:
- St Peter's dome 7epp if you catch the lift. You can save 1 or 2 euro if you are true tight arse or sadist (of which I am both, but my wife is neither) if you walk all the way. The lift takes you to the roof saving you a couple of hundred steps but it is still another 320 to the dome
- Combined ticket to the Roman Forum, the Palantine and the Coloseum 12epp. We only wanted to see the Roman Forum but needed to buy the combined ticket so went back into the Coloseum - ticket is valid for two days. My tip would be to buy the combined ticket at the Forum and save yourself from lining up just to buy a ticket at the Coloseum
- Metro in Rome 1.50epp valid for an hour or so (validated on entry)
- Places like the Pantheon are free and of course many 'tourist places' are in open air such as the piazzas, spanish steps, etc
- The thermal pools at Saturnia were free
- Combined tower & museum ticket in San Gimignano 5epp (all stairs)
- Siena Duomo 3epp which includes the Biblioteca but not the baptistery, combined tickets are available
- The Tower in Siena 8epp (again stairs only)
- The belltower in Florence 6epp (from memory the dome was cheaper three years ago, but I would expect it to cost a little more). The stairway on the belltower is a lot more open than the stair inside the dome ... good to know if you are claustrophobic, can't help you with the height though
- We were given free entry to Orsanmichele museum in Florence
- Combined Bascilica and Museum ticket to San Lorenzo in Florence 3.50epp. It was another 4epp to visit the Medici mausoleum (and museum) if you are looking for tips on how to spend the after-life, these guys knew how to do a crypt
- Vespa museum was free
- The tower in Bologna 3epp (satirs)
- I think the Ducati factory and museum costs about 8epp. The factory was closed due to the earthquake and the museum was free as part of WDW celebrations
- Ferrari Museum 13epp ... this does not include a ride in a Ferrari
- Ticket to the roof of Milan's Cathedral 13epp this included the lift (1 euro less to take the stairs) plus entry to the baptistery and treasury. I really wouldn't bother with the Treasury if you bought a combined ticket. Entry to the Cathedral itself is free though but they have heavily armed guards enforcing the dress code ... didn't stop Jukie hugging the guy with the machine gun. Oh and you can't buy the ticket at the Cathedral itself you have to do to the newstand up the road
- Vitorrio's Lambretta museum was free
- Train into Milan 2epp, remember to validate your ticket before boarding
- Metro in Milan 1.50epp
- Metro in Turin 1.50epp valid for 90 minutes validated on entry
- National Auto Museum in Turin 8epp
- Lift up (you can't walk) the Mole in Turin 6epp
- Palazzo Reale in Turin 6.50epp
- Cinque Terre National Park day pass including unlimited train use between the five towns 10epp ... as with all trains remember to validate your ticket before you board. You can also get a two day pass
- Cinque Terre ferry including the five towns plus Portovenere (and 3 islands ferry at Portovenere) 25epp for a hop-on, hop-off day ticket
- World Ducati Week free for non-Europeans
- Bus ticket in Misano 2epp + a 'buy on board premium'
- Fort, Palazzo & Museum in Castiglione del Lago combined ticket 5epp
- Villa d'Este 11epp
- Hadrian's Villa 11epp but you would probably want to know what you are letting yourself in for before committing

That's all I can remember at the moment.

[Betty]

I'll try again ...

THE END

So, if there is anybody still out there reading this crap, I assume you have had enough of me by now ... I think I am done. But if you have any questions or comments, criticisms or piss-taking ... fire away.

[techno]

Thanks for the write up Betty. I finally got around to reading it start to finish.

I have never been but would love to go. In the meantime I can always come back here to dream. 

[heatherp]

Phew, caught up with it all.  That's a lot of info Mark.  Thanks for taking the time and effort to write it all up. 

[Betty]

  Hey you guys know me ... I can bullshit for hours














... or days and weeks apparently