Rossi returns to Yamaha, how will he fair?

[duccarlos]

We would have had 4 aliens and possibly a 5th, with Marquez riding like he rides, fighting it out.

[ZLTFUL]

I suspect that Marquez will be very much like Simoncelli was at first. Crashes, taking people out, scolded by race direction and finally getting his head on straight and becoming a force to be reckoned with. And I really hate the guy but he is going to be good once he matures a bit.

As for the whole Rossi/Stoner debate...one thing Rossi has in spades versus Stoner...strong mental fortitude. I mean all you really need to do is look at Rossi's year before Ducati versus Stoner's last year.

I won't even get into the injury aspect of it.

[Triple J]

As for the whole Rossi/Stoner debate...one thing Rossi has in spades versus Stoner...strong mental fortitude. I mean all you really need to do is look at Rossi's year before Ducati versus Stoner's last year.

Please explain. I remember both breaking bones, one riding on a broken ankle (the other obviously couldn't ride with his break), and both returning successfully. Please don't say Stoner should have come back sooner. It was well documented that his ankle injury was serious enough that a re-injury during the healing process could cause him to lose function of the joint, and that he shouldn't have even raced at Indy.

[ZLTFUL]

I won't even get into the injury aspect of it.

Apparently you missed this part of my post...

Please explain. I remember both breaking bones, one riding on a broken ankle (the other obviously couldn't ride with his break), and both returning successfully. Please don't say Stoner should have come back sooner. It was well documented that his ankle injury was serious enough that a re-injury during the healing process could cause him to lose function of the joint, and that he shouldn't have even raced at Indy.

But to my point, the "mystery illness".

[The Don]

^^^^^^^ Do you truly believe what you write or are you trying to wind people up
I mean one eyed is one thing, but this is absolutely hilarious

[Jester]

I think Marquez has more talent than Simoncelli did, and despite making dumb mistakes, will follow a similar career path to Jorge.  I have a feeling Marquez will become a more likable character than Lorenzo as well.

[zooom]

As for the whole Rossi/Stoner debate...one thing Rossi has in spades versus Stoner...strong mental fortitude. I mean all you really need to do is look at Rossi's year before Ducati versus Stoner's last year.

you mean like banging fairings with Jorge at Motegi and then tossing his crutch from the podium to the crowd as a statement?

or are you trying to wind people up

it is winter after all...there is a special sport in bench racing of riling your fellow board readers up for a good heated discussion when there is no current racing to discuss....LOL

Apparently you missed this part of my post...

But to my point, the "mystery illness".

THAT was a media disaster and I truly believe that Stoner would be a wholly different light today with fans and DORNA and everyone IF that had been handled a whole lot better....just saying...

I think Marquez has more talent than Simoncelli did, and despite making dumb mistakes, will follow a similar career path to Jorge.  I have a feeling Marquez will become a more likable character than Lorenzo as well.

I think Marquez has AS MUCH talent as SuperSic did....I think the transition from a 250 to GP versus a Moto2 bike to GP is a bit different....they both seem to come with a mental fortitude and attitude that is promising...Simo made mistakes...granted...but he also played up the media with a very gregarious attitude comparable to Rossi when it boiled down to dealing with things...and it wasn't because it was/is an italian thing...though I want to see some more media of Marqez to see if and how he sets himself apart from the other Spaniards in GP...Simo knew he had a lot of work to do to adapt to another small but powerful bike with his very gangly frame and riding style...Marquez on the other hand was riding his Moto2 Bike more like we expected to see him ride a GP bike...similar in  style...I think the adaption though will be quicker...he'll still make mistakes...but I think they may be a bit different in charachter and I suspect his crashes will be more low sides from losing the front when pushing the limit....and I expect a couple of fairing bashing moments

[Triple J]

Apparently you missed this part of my post...

But to my point, the "mystery illness".

Nope, I saw it, just didn't understand what you saying. By Stoner's last year I thought you meant this past year (i.e. the ankle), not his last year at Ducati.

The illness thing still being mentioned is ridiculous. Stoner didn't handle it well from a PR standpoint, but he was clearly sick, and he came back strong. Regarding mental fortitude...I do remember a couple races last season where Rossi sure seemed to have packed it in, obviously frustrated with the Duc. Never saw that from Stoner.   

[ZLTFUL]

Nope, I saw it, just didn't understand what you saying. By Stoner's last year I thought you meant this past year (i.e. the ankle), not his last year at Ducati.

The illness thing still being mentioned is ridiculous. Stoner didn't handle it well from a PR standpoint, but he was clearly sick, and he came back strong. Regarding mental fortitude...I do remember a couple races last season where Rossi sure seemed to have packed it in, obviously frustrated with the Duc. Never saw that from Stoner.  

We are comparing apples to cumquats here.
Parroting the "bad PR" rhetoric doesn't make the thing any less poignant. He was beat up mentally. I personally think that this was the point where Stoner decided to retire even though the official announcement didn't come until 1.5 years later. His reason for quitting was mental...not physical...not contractual. It was mental. He gave up on the series. He gave up on the series when he was still in a position to win races and win championships. Mentally, he wasn't in the game.
Rossi on the other hand, even with 2 shit seasons under his belt wasn't thinking about retirement but was trying to figure out ways to get back onto a bike he could compete with. He was down but most certainly not out.
Stoner was on top of his game and just said make the beast with two backs it...I quit. If that isn't a lack of mental fortitude then I don't know what is.

Anyway, I stick by my opinion. Rossi has something that Stoner doesn't. Hell, Nicky has something Stoner doesn't. That poor kid has been ass stomped by the Ducati but keeps signing back up knowing he doesn't really stand another chance at a consistent podium. But he keeps soldiering on.
Spies does as well. Dude got throat punched over and over again by arguably the best bike in the paddock and said make the beast with two backs it...I think I will give a worse bike a shot. Now his mental fortitude may be a bit retarded but he is sticking with it and remaining optimistic that things will get better.
Stoner threw in the towel and said nope...not gonna get better so I am going to take my ball back to Autralia and everyone else is big fat doody heads.


I agree about Marquez, zoom. I think he will be up there because he was riding a MotoGP bike before he was even on one. His style is what he will need to compete. But I think his maturity is still lacking. He will push when he needs to just settle for the podium and fight another day. This will be his biggest opponent this year...not the other riders.

[duccarlos]

If I had to money to retire from a job I no longer enjoy, I would do it in a heartbeat. And unlike Nicky and Val, he is married with a young child, which probably didn't help that he needed to be away from them for long periods of time.

If you want to bring up mental fortitude between Val and Stoner, you only need to go to Laguna. Stoner lost the championship that year in that race. That was one year.

TripJ made the best point about Rossi's mental fortitude. He flat out gave up in quite a few races in those 2 years. You could tell that he was done with the whole thing half way through his first year. Stoner complained (a lot), but he always rode the shit out of the bike.

A better comparison will be if Stoner rides the wildcard races. I know that Stoner fans will start making excuses now just in case he's not in good form, but with both Stoner and Val on good machinery, you will be able to make the case for whose best RIGHT NOW. Cause unless you have a time machine you can't compare them when they're at them prime.

[zooom]

well....I'll argue the wildcard race point...those races are late in the year, at which point...Honda will probably have their hopes pinned on another title with hopefully Dani, but Marquez wouldn't be an unquestionable possibility...if Stoner did ride at say Philip Island....what is to say that they ( Honda)are going to give him the latest and greatest iteration of machinery and potentially put a championship in jeopardy because of the points game?...and for what?

just something to chew on FWIW....

[derby]

The illness thing still being mentioned is ridiculous. Stoner didn't handle it well from a PR standpoint...

PR aside, he mishandled the whole thing with his team! he just flat-out disappeared on them to the point that they didn't know if (or when) he was coming back to finish the season or if he was even going to race for them the following year.

[ZLTFUL]

Again, I agree with you Zoom. It really depends on when those wildcards take place in the season and where Honda is in the battle for a title. If they are out of it with no chance of winning it, I can see them giving him a recent iteration of the RC213V. Otherwise, if Durpy McDinklewad and/or Marquez are battling for a title, they aren't going to give the guy who walked a way a chance to cause harm to their season long efforts.

Carlos,
Emotions are mental. He no longer enjoys it because of something he has in his head. Throwing in the towel and looking forward to the next season is a vastly different thing than saying make the beast with two backs you, things won't change, I am leaving.
"I quit because my family" is again a mental thing. He's asking himself "What if" too much.

Let's look at someone like Larry Pegram...wife...2 daughters...still goes out to every AMA race and rides his sack off trying to be competitive. Yeah...he's concerned about his family if the worst should happen but it isn't stopping him from pushing the limit.
Besides, being away from family? Name one race where Adriana wasn't there? (besides just before and just after Alessandra was born)

[ZLTFUL]

PR aside, he mishandled the whole thing with his team! he just flat-out disappeared on them to the point that they didn't know if (or when) he was coming back to finish the season or if he was even going to race for them the following year.

Thank you! 

[Raux]

I can see them using Stoner as a way to secure the manufacturer title