Ignitech TCIP4, again

[JoeB]

I read your entire dissertation...^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and I can't , for the life of me, figure out what it has to do with the ignitek...

what did I miss?

Nothing. It was actually related to an earlier post in the thread regarding the use of resistor plugs with resistor caps and whether or not there is an issue.

I did not quote the post, but should have. I'll try to fix the earlier post to provide some clarification.

Sorry for the confusion.

it was more of a precis of ignition systems and why people have so many problems with them - and not directly inferring there is an issue with the ignitech as such.

There is a lot more detail involved with the rating, specification and delivery of the high voltage to the electrode. I was just trying to demonstrate how history and urban myth combine to provide a diy mechanic with incorrect information.

[koko64]

No worries. A  bit of a rant, but an informative one.
You could do a thread on it. It's great for members to access expertise in different areas.
Cheers.

[ducatiz]

Unfortunately, Ducati, like Mercedes-Benz, used technology for their application which is (was) perfectly reliable in it's day.

actually....

The early Ducatis (79-84) used a Bosch ignition but apparently Bosch didn't consider that it would be submerged in hot oil, so they did not use an oil/heat proof wire sheating.  Pickup failures were rampant on this model era (Pantahs).  They had the proper materials available, but for someone reason, the memo was lost.

It's not hard to replace the wiring with correct spec wiring . I've rewired dozens of bikes, mainly to make them simpler for track use.  Eliminating the Molex connectors in favor of 21st century connectors (TE or similar) makes a huge difference.

[Speeddog]

The saga continues.

The (apparently) good trigger has wires that are broken.
The (apparently) bad trigger has good wires.
 

Consequences of fiddling with 15 year old wiring.

[ducatiz]

The saga continues.

The (apparently) good trigger has wires that are broken.
The (apparently) bad trigger has good wires.
 

Consequences of fiddling with 15 year old wiring.

I have a wire seller that will even stripe them if you need.  If you are interested, ping me, I'll dig up their info.

They have TXL/SXL/GXL.. I use only GXL as it's a good balance of thickness and chemical/heat resistance.

It's pretty easy to make an ignition loom

[Speeddog]

I'll have to pull the triggers out to see if they're both good.

Figures, I changed the oil 250 miles ago. 

[JoeB]

actually....

The early Ducatis (79-84) used a Bosch ignition but apparently Bosch didn't consider that it would be submerged in hot oil, so they did not use an oil/heat proof wire sheating.  Pickup failures were rampant on this model era (Pantahs).  They had the proper materials available, but for someone reason, the memo was lost.

Correct. Bosch did supply Ducati, - to ducati's specification.  Bosch actually sold the same part under a different part number for Laverda & Moto Guzzi, and the problem was noexistent on those bikes. Especially the Lav. I jad an 81 Jota which I sold only a couple years ago, still with the complete original wiring, and no problems. the v50 Guzzi's and the v7's didn't have the problem.

Let's not forget that  Ducati were not exactly rolling in money in the early 80's. The first Pantahs had some pretty big issues. Not just electrical ones. Clutch basket rivets, clutch shaft failuers, flywheel nuts, case seals, cush drive failures, oversprung forks….  I could write pages. But we love them because we can fix them. We don't love them when they leave us stranded with blocked carby jets or failed regulators. The only reason I still don't have my 82 900SS is because I was dumb enough to sell it.

bevels or belts, it doesn't matter. The bikes quality has improved 100 times over in 20 years. the new bikes rolling off the production line put out more than twice the power and are 10 times more reliable. When you have an older bike, you just have to put up with these little distractions that pop up every now and then. 

[Speeddog]

All is well.

Replaced my triggers with a (hopefully) good used set I had in my spares.

Ignition performance is good, especially nice to have some realistic idle speed control when warming up on the choke.

Now to undo the "while I was in that far" jetting changes. 

[brad black]

All is well.

Replaced my triggers with a (hopefully) good used set I had in my spares.

Ignition performance is good, especially nice to have some realistic idle speed control when warming up on the choke.

Now to undo the "while I was in that far" jetting changes. 

 

bt, dt.

like you have time to work on your own bike.

[tibrocks]

I just got the standard TCIP4 unit.. not installed yet.
 before that: after my pickups failed, I replaced them with the P8s and the bike is running 'fine' again.. all stock right now, I noticed some backfiring..  what could be the cause? I think it's more when decelerating.

back to the TCIP, I don't know exactly how to wire it. they sent me the wiring to match stock units and there's a pair of black connectors and a white one.  which one's for the horizontal and which for the vertical?

then the base advance  -  do I have to change it from the stock setting? this horrifies me because it's not really a pleasure to get to the pickups again.. 

thirdly, where can I get some maps from I don't even know where to start...


  Thanks in advance!

[greenmonster]

http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vignition.html
lots of info.

[brad black]

since i wrote that report i have found the later units i've had do not have a delay with increasing rpm.

the base advance is just the trailing edge of the lump.  it should be 6 degrees if the bike has not had the timing changed.

[ducatiz]

You mean the v80 units or have you gotten one of the v10 to test?  They aren't selling the v10 yet

[koko64]

The V80 .

[Speeddog]

Below are screen grabs of v.80 software, with the settings I'm using currently on my '98 M750.

The advance curve feels reasonable, but hasn't been dyno-developed, so YMMV.







Alternate view options for the advance table; a 2-D and 3-D view.
3-D view is only useful with a TPS/MAP sensor setup.