Ignitech TCIP4, again

[tibrocks]

so basic advance is 6 or 10? for stock bike

[Speeddog]

so basic advance is 6 or 10? for stock bike

Base advance 6.

[Speeddog]

Finally finished up my extended lump flywheel.

For reference, OEM:



After welding:



After machining:



Other side:



You can see the additional drillings to restore balance, as there's more material on the lump.

Also, lightened it while I had it in the lathe, from 2052g to 1726g.
Not a huge reduction, but all of it taken off the large diameter area, so significant reduction in inertia.

And, seeing what Brad Black did with colored dot timing marks, I decided to go one better.
Nice series of dots, so no color code chart needed.
one dot for 10 degress, two for 20 degrees, and so on.



Looked the dogs bollocks on the bench.

But behind the window, in a hurricane of oil, lit by the timing light... can't see make the beast with two backsall.

I've put in a timing curve with a step from 35 to 40 degrees at about my highway cruising RPM, so I can play it back and forth to see if it feels any different.

Oh, and I fixed the jetting that I "improved" while I had it open to put the IgneTech in....

[ducatiz]

Nice

How much to order one?

[Speeddog]

Well, the jetting change got it back to running the way it was before.

The 5 degree timing 'step' was nearly undetectable while riding. 
Perhaps even totally undetectable, as I knew where to expect it, so my butt-dyno may have been generating bad data.

Tiz, producing the flywheel required borrowing time on a lathe, so not very practical.
Perhaps in the future.......

[ducatiz]

Well, the jetting change got it back to running the way it was before.

The 5 degree timing 'step' was nearly undetectable while riding. 
Perhaps even totally undetectable, as I knew where to expect it, so my butt-dyno may have been generating bad data.

Tiz, producing the flywheel required borrowing time on a lathe, so not very practical.
Perhaps in the future.......

i know someone with one of them.  hrm.

[Langanobob]

Finally finished up my extended lump flywheel.

...You can see the additional drillings to restore balance, as there's more material on the lump.

Just curious how you re-balanced it?  Send it out to a balancing shop, or were you able to do it in house? 

Thanks

[Speeddog]

Just curious how you re-balanced it?  Send it out to a balancing shop, or were you able to do it in house? 

Thanks

Balance shop just around the corner did the work.

[Speeddog]

Since the 5 degree timing step was nigh on invisible, I decided to try 10 degrees.

Like this:



Still couldn't feel much, if anything.

 
I've conceded defeat in this battle.
If I can't feel that big a change, there's no point in pursuing a TPS or manifold vacuum advance strategy at this time.
If I had free dyno time, perhaps.

Went back to the curve I have shown in my March 10 post.

[ducatiz]

The TPS would be for decel only, that's where you'd get the most.  Maybe a little with roll-on accel if you do it right, but then again, not much. 

[Speeddog]

I'd be curious to see what the manifold vacuum curve in the DigiPlex is.

Oh, here, Brad has it. 



Perhaps it may be worth it after all to try the manifold vacuum.

[brad black]

the issue with the manifold vacuum is that the cruise vac is a much greater % of max than the throttle opening.  so, you need to narrow the range of max and min voltage.

if you want a heap more advance at cruise, and it cruises at 100km/h at 10cm hg, and wot is 0cm hg and max vac is 50cm hg, then cruise is 80% tps voltage.  these were the sort of # i saw when logging my 750.  maybe 15cm hg at cruise, but definitely no more.  throttle opening wise you might have 10 degrees at 100km/h, max being 82 to 85.

so if you want a wot line that is accurate, you need the 80% line to be much the same as if it's not then you still have tapering adv to wot.  so if you want 30 deg at wot and 60 at cruise, you need cruise to be 60 degrees or less tps equivalent out of the map, and that's where the manifold vac/tps interrelation sort of falls over in terms of outright low and high used as equivalents.

so the 0cm hg map output voltage is your tps high figure, but instead of tps low being 76cm hg (actually, my map was 0v at 65cm hg), it might be 25cm hg.  this gives a break resolution of 20% = 5cm hg, so your 80% line is 5cm hg vac, and you wouldn't want it any higher vac wise than that I don't think.

a 900 will pull more vac than a 750, a 600 less too.

if that make sense.

just something to look out for.  generally, more adv will help fuel economy.  you might not feel it so much, but it should use less fuel.  brutale 750 certainly does.  but you need +20 degrees, up to 30 if you've got it.

[ducatiz]

Stressing that MAP will be widely different for each modelby cc  and for any differences in head work.  Setting up map advance points shouldn't be too hard though but you have to have some way to log mercury height i.e dyno

[Speeddog]

Thanks, Brad. 

I'd read the most recent stuff you posted on the old board, and I think I get the gist of it.

I've fitted a standard automotive diagnostic vacuum/pressure combo gauge.
My test ride verified that the 1/3 of the gauge sweep dedicated to vacuum made reading accurate numbers virtually impossible.
Freeway cruise vacuum was in the range of 5-10 inHg, near as I could tell, anyway....
That's only about a 5mm needle sweep, and the vacuum signal pulsation was usually at least that much.
So I need a dedicated vacuum gauge and very aggressive signal damping to get acceptably accurate data.

My modified flywheel can give me ~60 degrees of total advance, which should be enough.

[brad black]

I figured the way to test it would be to do a loop with a single line adv and then repeat the loop with the map active and compare fuel economy.  that's about the clearest way to show a benefit.  I don't know if you'd really notice it otherwise.

I just used a normal gm green map sensor.